A proposition for the state of Homestuck's narrative (or how Skaia is to blame for it all)

[burnt2ashleys]

Hello, hello, thank you for clicking on this thread and reading this, my name's Ashley. I've been "studying"/"researching" Homestuck for... about 2 years, coming up at 3, and I've come to an interesting conclusion of sorts regarding all of it.
I would like to preface this by saying that this is not a complete analysis of Homestuck as a phenomenon or any sort of objective truth regarding it, this is only an epiphany that I have had not too long ago which I would like to share. There are multiple avenues to analyze Homestuck, and mine is lacking where others' analysis might flourish in. Keep this in mind as you read what I wrote, you might be able to locate discrepancies and opportunities to build upon what I've discovered.
Now, without further ado, let's get to this.
------------

Let's start with a small detour. Say I'm making a story based on... I don't know, Super Mario Bros. (1985). How would I define the motivations of each character?
The dragon, Bowser, wants to rule the Mushroom Kingdom, the princess, Peach, wants to be rescued, and the hero, Mario, wants to rescue Peach.
These motivations are simple and effective enough that, if this is a relatively normal story where Bowser gets defeated at the end (and Mario sets out on his quest at the beginning), then regardless of what events and circumstances I add in the middle of this story, the motivations will remain (they can be expanded upon and be put under new contexts, but they won't change).

Now, Homestuck. In it, as I'm sure you know, Skaia is something (more on that later) which is intrinsically connected to all of SBURB, all of the setting, and most characters, antagonists or otherwise. It is the core of the system which governs a level below the highest possible (the authorial, that is), and thus, owed quite some importance. And, as I'm sure you also know, it is source of discontent for some characters, particularly Rose and Jade, throughout the earlier acts of the comic, more pronouncedly with Rose breaking her own planet in order to acquire answers in how to break SBURB.
Skaia is then, portrayed as an entity, with defined goals and characteristics, capacities and limitations. It cannot act directly if not through manipulating time-travelling portals, and everything else is dependant on the characters' ties to Skaia and the system it has constructed throughout the non-linear timeline of Paradox Space.
This is all par for the course for any story, Rose is out and about (later playing right into Doc Scratch's hand), Jade is (later on) betrayed by Skaia, but then, a departure happens. Following into Act 6, this aspect of Skaia's agency and this very defined set of characteristics and capacities is wholly abandoned. This departure would be an otherwise normal entry in the varied list of things that Homestuck left off as it developed given its nature. However, what makes this change so important is the importance that Skaia got before this.

One small detour to contextualize why this is so important. I will advise, there is a small spoiler here about what I'll discuss, the Berserk manga. It will probably not change how you perceive the manga should you read it, but it's there, so fair warning just in case.

Spoiler

Show

In Berserk, you have the protagonist, Guts, and the antagonist, Femto, but then you have the Idea of Evil, an entity which Femto is ultimately subordinated to. This is a small detail introduced in a chapter that is no longer in circulation by express order of the author, and the reason why this is can be ascertained quite quickly: It changes your perception of the story, because otherwise, the antagonist would appear to be powerful, but not impossible to beat! But! With the introduction of the IoE, you have the definition of an entire system wherein the character is in and cannot escape, governed by an entity. Only hearing about it would be enough to paint a picture of what Berserk is if you haven't read it: It's a story of a character in a hopeless situation.

Back to Homestuck, this is why Skaia being forsaken as an entity is such a significant event, because now Skaia has morphed from being an entity that could be addressed and/or confronted to a mere constant of the setting and the narrative of Homestuck. This alters the "mood" of Homestuck proper, because now this insurmountably powerful entity has now ingrained itself within the things you don't dare question, you might not have even noticed its existence come Collide, but it is there, and every single character, antagonist and otherwise, is within its grasp, and firmly so! I would wager that Skaia is not even mentioned once throughout the Epilogues (if someone can verify this for me, I'll edit this section accordingly) (it has been mentioned, please disregard this bit, and thanks for the information ), but even so, its influence is there. And this changes the reader's idea of what Homestuck is.
And you want to know what's more terrifying? This lack of addressing means that not even the creative team (and this includes Andrew Hussie himself) on What Pumpkin is aware of this fact anymore! It took me 2 years to finally reach this conclusion! And I would like to preface my next statements by saying that in no way do I intend to attack or defame any of the very skilled workers of What Pumpkin Incorporated, as I am sure that they are hard-working and talented individuals. Please, for the love of FUCK, do not get this thread locked with petty bullshit. I spent a couple of hours+ writing this.
However, the creative team, by neglecting Skaia, creates an unintentionally depressive and hopeless situation with Homestuck, and the only way they could possibly address it is by acknowledging Skaia. Again, this isn't to say this neglect is conscious, it's just that the team is operating under the exact same set of assumptions that everyone and their sprites on the community are running on (some things don't change, John Egbert stays a Breath player regardless of timeline or state of being, and Skaia existing doing "whatever Skaia does lol" has entered that master list).
I wonder then that, is it any wonder that the premise of the story itself is bleak and we're having to rely on post-canon content to get our "fix"? That we have to wait for Pesterquest to finally see that 4-way beta kid conversation that we were hoping for throughout the whole of Homestuck?
It's certainly doable that the situation can stay for however long with a passionate community, but I posit a far better solution that not only would make the story engaging for any (including newcomers) and all, but even put Homestuck back on the spotlight of the Internet mainstream: Make Skaia a notorious entity again, split good and bad guys accordingly (not protags/antags, important distinction there). This would be more than enough to build upon with the people on deck working on Homestuck and generate engagement and hype (again, these people are incredibly talented and skilled, this I have no doubt) from the whole of the fandom. Which, again, isn't to say that anything needs to be forsaken, we can still have our Junes and AUs and headcanons and post-canons, such a shift would be minimal on the surface, but it would be enough to completely change the perception of the story, and it would be fundamental for the long-term of Homestuck.

------------
So, tell me what you guys think. Is there anything you think that I missed/got wrong in my analysis? Is there anything you feel could be added to this? I know Classpectanon has a killer theory on Skaia being a meme virus of sorts, so you can reasonably add that to my research, and I recommend you guys check that out, it's great. Any feedback is very much appreciated!

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

It's still mentioned, but there's still the implication that Skaia no longer has influence over them because they're done playing the game. That it's a thing of the past.

I think a lot of fans are under the impression that Skaia is somehow benevolent even though its main motivation is to FUCK, which is something I consider amoral. I guess it's because the Skaia looks like a bright, cheery morning. I'm wondering about the notorious aspect, because so many of Skaia's truths are taken for granted.

Also, there's this thread over here. Not sure how much it overlaps.

[RoyalFiddle]

considering the use of the participants for the Universal fucking, and what they get out of it, I feel like Skaia is very symbiotic. It gets to propagate, and the peeps it uses to propagate get to be immortal gods, as long as they don't do anything that would put the propagation into jeopardy. Which, as far as inter-species collaboration goes, isn't all that immoral

[Dream Muttman]

Skaia is the one creating portals to protect the battlefield that it aims the end point of straight at whatever planet that plays host to intelligent life it's decided to use as a seed bed today, which is every planet with intelligent life via First Guardian exposition in Act 5 Act 2 (I think).

Keep in mind even Earth C is slated for a game of SBURB. The new universe is just a new generation of the same cycle.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

Which, as far as inter-species collaboration goes, isn't all that immoral

I need my gut flora to live, but I don't know any of their names. If I said that I cared about their personal growth, that'd be a lie.

[burnt2ashleys]

I'd like to address some of the replies thus far, clarify some stuff, expand upon it, that sort of thing.

I think a lot of fans are under the impression that Skaia is somehow benevolent even though its main motivation is to FUCK, which is something I consider amoral. I guess it's because the Skaia looks like a bright, cheery morning. I'm wondering about the notorious aspect, because so many of Skaia's truths are taken for granted.

Right on the money, sir, but I'd say that this goes even further, to a point where Skaia is simply not registered for both fandom and creators alike. Neither party, from what I could gather, is interested about SBURB and its mechanics, and by simply focusing on the characters, we are reaching a state of "rot", wherein fundamental aspects of the narrative are in negligence, and by not being given enough attention, they start to shriek. The reverberations of this neglect are ever so subtle, but reach oh so far away from the levels where it happens, like a building, sinking further and further into the ground, becoming warped as the steel bars of the foundation start to bend from the rust. However, neither owners and residents are able to notice this, and simply believe that coating the walls in new paint and creating more floors is enough to solve the problem. As I explained before with Berserk as an analogy, defining Skaia as such an omnipresent entity, and then doing nothing with it irrevocably causes a shift in the way one views Homestuck, and with even the writers and the artists falling into this illusion, the situation for the comic spells grim in its continuations.

Now, I've not addressed whether or not Skaia's actions are good or bad per se, because its mere existence is noxious to the narrative on every single level, all the way to the meta-fictional level and the invisible contract between author and reader. Whatever intentions it may have, good or bad, are irrelevant here because this wanton neglect cannot even give us readers enough information to extrapolate and discuss upon Skaia. For such a thing to happen, we must first and foremost recall its existence as an entity that has a definite role in the narrative which it continues to fill, even if unbeknownst to both community (us), creative (What Pumpkin Inc.) and fictional (characters inside the story) sides of Homestuck.

One last thing to address:

Keep in mind even Earth C is slated for a game of SBURB. The new universe is just a new generation of the same cycle.

The new universe is the last universe in Paradox Space's grasp, there is nothing beyond Earth C (and its SBURB session, as I'm sure you all know, is Caliborn's session, the catalyst for the creation of PS) that we know of, and, if we were to conjecture that Dirk is still on Earth C's universe in Homestuck², and that he successfully sets up another game of SBURB, then that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, because that would theoretically be under Lord English's area of actuation, and it would open up the possibility of other SBURB sessions in Paradox Space beyond the ones that we've seen happen in Homestuck, which would then increase Lord English's domain even MORE! What a situation, this would invariably bleed the declared non-canon into the canon and vice-versa. Food for thought.

[Sahxyel]

It's still mentioned, but there's still the implication that Skaia no longer has influence over them because they're done playing the game. That it's a thing of the past.

I think a lot of fans are under the impression that Skaia is somehow benevolent even though its main motivation is to FUCK, which is something I consider amoral. I guess it's because the Skaia looks like a bright, cheery morning. I'm wondering about the notorious aspect, because so many of Skaia's truths are taken for granted.

[thorondraco]

I'd like to address some of the replies thus far, clarify some stuff, expand upon it, that sort of thing.

I think a lot of fans are under the impression that Skaia is somehow benevolent even though its main motivation is to FUCK, which is something I consider amoral. I guess it's because the Skaia looks like a bright, cheery morning. I'm wondering about the notorious aspect, because so many of Skaia's truths are taken for granted.

Right on the money, sir, but I'd say that this goes even further, to a point where Skaia is simply not registered for both fandom and creators alike. Neither party, from what I could gather, is interested about SBURB and its mechanics, and by simply focusing on the characters, we are reaching a state of "rot", wherein fundamental aspects of the narrative are in negligence, and by not being given enough attention, they start to shriek. The reverberations of this neglect are ever so subtle, but reach oh so far away from the levels where it happens, like a building, sinking further and further into the ground, becoming warped as the steel bars of the foundation start to bend from the rust. However, neither owners and residents are able to notice this, and simply believe that coating the walls in new paint and creating more floors is enough to solve the problem. As I explained before with Berserk as an analogy, defining Skaia as such an omnipresent entity, and then doing nothing with it irrevocably causes a shift in the way one views Homestuck, and with even the writers and the artists falling into this illusion, the situation for the comic spells grim in its continuations.

Now, I've not addressed whether or not Skaia's actions are good or bad per se, because its mere existence is noxious to the narrative on every single level, all the way to the meta-fictional level and the invisible contract between author and reader. Whatever intentions it may have, good or bad, are irrelevant here because this wanton neglect cannot even give us readers enough information to extrapolate and discuss upon Skaia. For such a thing to happen, we must first and foremost recall its existence as an entity that has a definite role in the narrative which it continues to fill, even if unbeknownst to both community (us), creative (What Pumpkin Inc.) and fictional (characters inside the story) sides of Homestuck.

One last thing to address:

Keep in mind even Earth C is slated for a game of SBURB. The new universe is just a new generation of the same cycle.

The new universe is the last universe in Paradox Space's grasp, there is nothing beyond Earth C (and its SBURB session, as I'm sure you all know, is Caliborn's session, the catalyst for the creation of PS) that we know of, and, if we were to conjecture that Dirk is still on Earth C's universe in Homestuck², and that he successfully sets up another game of SBURB, then that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, because that would theoretically be under Lord English's area of actuation, and it would open up the possibility of other SBURB sessions in Paradox Space beyond the ones that we've seen happen in Homestuck, which would then increase Lord English's domain even MORE! What a situation, this would invariably bleed the declared non-canon into the canon and vice-versa. Food for thought.

Skaia probably is like a core of narrative power of some kind that molds reality as we know it. In a sense it 'shines onto a story' in order to make it visible to us the viewers. Or whatever is our equivalent within the meta space of paradox space. It takes the void and shines its light upon it, giving it form, and does this via a cycle. But it is also slowly destroying the void in this process.
It has all the power it needs to rewrite the narrative but only does so when its triggered rather doing so willingly. We ultimately know the Skaias are eggs, but we don't know how they come into being or what they really are. Especially as visually speaking, they look very similar to Kernel sprites.

Also Earth c will only host the Caliborn session as part of its part in the timeloop. After the civlization of earth c is gone. But we don't know what happens to earth c's society. It easily could simply leave the planet because the sun going red giant and not get just, wiped out. We have Calliope still on planet so she would probably do her best to make sure hr home, twice over, does not suffer a cruel fate before its time. And the peeps there can just escape rather than die out.

As skaia seemingly decides what is canon, i have a theory. Because every aspect of the session gives off an artificial vibe, from the constant use of devices, many representing a game being run such as the giant game disk that is used for the scratch, i think Skaia itself is an artificial construct made by some unknown so and sos. Possible related to cherubs as many devices we see, such as the God tier clocks, are marked by their crock snake forms.

The primary function is to turn Void into existence, done so via the Narrative. But this is destructive to the void as it is unraveled into the separate aspects to do this. The issue of confirmation is the twice stated truth. With narrative powers, if you are sly enough you can make a change look like it was always supposed to happen anyway. Both Dirk and John has said it. And it could make Skaia and Sburb look like it has always existed. A perfect lie from a white semi benign Devil.
would explain why the void hates the session. it loses ground.

Also another question. Is narrative power the aiblity to make skaia bend to your will and light itself upon a timeline or event? Or is it a power a person can personally hold?

[burnt2ashleys]

thorondraco, mate. None of what you wrote has anything to do with what I wrote and what this thread is about. Skaia doesn't even decide what's canon, it's not even a plural entity, we don't KNOW what Skaia does fully other than be the core of SBURB and manipulate the portals for the meteors. Please, try not to ramble here, this topic is complex and confusing enough as it is.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

does skaia put noncanon images in the clouds? if not, then maybe it does play a role.

[thorondraco]

thorondraco, mate. None of what you wrote has anything to do with what I wrote and what this thread is about. Skaia doesn't even decide what's canon, it's not even a plural entity, we don't KNOW what Skaia does fully other than be the core of SBURB and manipulate the portals for the meteors. Please, try not to ramble here, this topic is complex and confusing enough as it is.

We know four things. Skaia is a conscious entity, the Furthest ring and its inhabitants hate it and the frogs, it can manifest a power that erases a timeline's original state like Retcon seemingly can, and that presumably almost everything we think we know about Sburb is a lie or speculation by people in universe as stated by some creators. The first three parts are the only things we know for certain. It may even be possible that Skaia's portal limitations are in fact a conscious limitation it puts on itself, not an actual limitation to its abilities.

Though yea i was being a bit rambly. But considering seriously its likely that is more to Skaia than we know. Sburb is at the core of Canon stuff and thus Skaia is the core of Canon stuff so there is obviously a relation there.

[burnt2ashleys]

This is a good way to put it thorondraco, but, my focus with this thread is not to simply try to extrapolate from the information we have on Skaia, or even to discuss Skaia itself, but to call attention to the forgotten narrative role it has (think Lord English as the villain instead of who he is), and the overall negative effect that it has on not only the narrative, but on the image that the readers and writers alike get from Homestuck, what it means to them, what it represents. This severe negligence towards something so primordial and necessary to Homestuck's story as well as its effects are what I've since dubbed "Candy Rot", because, instead of giving equal attention to the setting and the characters in it, which would be essential for the maintenance of any story to sustain itself in the minds of both readers and authors alike, the extended focus on the character development of the characters and abandoning the worldbuilding (for whichever reason might be) aspects of the comic has led to this grim (and perhaps, dark) situation.

And to fix this situation, we should not accept mere excuses for the continued focus of the characters (nothing in the likes of "well, Breath means freedom or whatever" or "Feferi ruled a theocratic state in Beforus or whatever" would be enough), the setting HAS to be fleshed out. And I would once again like to reiterate that this does not mean abandoning the characters, but instead, I say that, for this Candy Rot to be remedied, equal attention, care, and effort must be given to both the setting of the narrative and the characters within, and a shift in the modus operandi of the creators and the community alike regarding Homestuck. A change in the presentation (dialog/dynamics between characters, art style, general writing, et cetera) is not required for this to happen.

It is well-known that Andrew forsakes worldbuilding for the sake of the message told and of the characters, it's a well documented fact, even. And the fandom, likewise, at least in its current set of circumstances, appears to follow suit, focusing on the characters of Homestuck rather than its settings, which are, I personally believe, incredibly ripe for exploration. But, regardless of my personal opinion, this wanton disregard for worldbuilding and other such explorations have invariably taken their toll on the whole of the comic, and, if kept unchecked, will continue to do so more and more. You may ask me what it is that will happen if this keeps going, and I genuinely wouldn't be able to tell you under this perspective, so your guess is as good as mine. But the point stands: We have to acknowledge the narrative role that Skaia plays, and we must bring this to light for the rest of the community, all the way to the creative team, and it must be addressed if we are to heal this Candy Rot.
edit log: Line breaks added for ease of reading

[Darth_Energon]

I gotta say I agree about Skaia's presence being sidelined is extremely lame, especially because of characters actually acknowledging it earlier on in the story. There's some great potential for stories of fatalism and predeterminism in here somewhere. It's absence definitely leads to the story feeling more hollow.

[thorondraco]

This is a good way to put it thorondraco, but, my focus with this thread is not to simply try to extrapolate from the information we have on Skaia, or even to discuss Skaia itself, but to call attention to the forgotten narrative role it has (think Lord English as the villain instead of who he is), and the overall negative effect that it has on not only the narrative, but on the image that the readers and writers alike get from Homestuck, what it means to them, what it represents. This severe negligence towards something so primordial and necessary to Homestuck's story as well as its effects are what I've since dubbed "Candy Rot", because, instead of giving equal attention to the setting and the characters in it, which would be essential for the maintenance of any story to sustain itself in the minds of both readers and authors alike, the extended focus on the character development of the characters and abandoning the worldbuilding (for whichever reason might be) aspects of the comic has led to this grim (and perhaps, dark) situation. And to fix this situation, we should not accept mere excuses for the continued focus of the characters (nothing in the likes of "well, Breath means freedom or whatever" or "Feferi ruled a theocratic state in Beforus or whatever" would be enough), the setting HAS to be fleshed out. And I would once again like to reiterate that this does not mean abandoning the characters, but instead, I say that, for this Candy Rot to be remedied, equal attention, care, and effort must be given to both the setting of the narrative and the characters within, and a shift in the modus operandi of the creators and the community alike regarding Homestuck. A change in the presentation (dialog/dynamics between characters, art style, general writing, et cetera) is not required for this to happen. It is well-known that Andrew forsakes worldbuilding for the sake of the message told and of the characters, it's a well documented fact, even. And the fandom, likewise, at least in its current set of circumstances, appears to follow suit, focusing on the characters of Homestuck rather than its settings, which are, I personally believe, incredibly ripe for exploration. But, regardless of my personal opinion, this wanton disregard for worldbuilding and other such explorations have invariably taken their toll on the whole of the comic, and, if kept unchecked, will continue to do so more and more. You may ask me what it is that will happen if this keeps going, and I genuinely wouldn't be able to tell you under this perspective, so your guess is as good as mine. But the point stands: We have to acknowledge the narrative role that Skaia plays, and we must bring this to light for the rest of the community, all the way to the creative team, and it must be addressed if we are to heal this Candy Rot.

Worst and best part about homestuck is that we never know what is deliberate and what is an accident that then becomes a plot point. If it was a mistake that hussie made with Homestuck, then its possible he can turn that mistake into a plot point. Or attention being turned away from Skaia, outside of delivering their session's instance of the battlefield into the next sessions Skaia, might even be deliberate on his part all along and its meant to foreshadow and hint at something. A wrongness with Skaia maybe?

Hussie is either an eldritch genius or he is simply skilled at taking a mistake and running with it. Or both.

[Prime]

Hussie is either an eldritch genius or he is simply skilled at taking a mistake and running with it. Or both.

It's both but your musings are practically a little under a decade late. As in if Hussie wanted to do something with Skaia this far into Homestuck official, he'd have done it before ending the comic in 2016 and it doesn't seem as if the current writing team will pick up that ball either. It doesn't matter if Hussie lost interest or is simply playing 4d chess with Skaia though; It's undeniable that there has been little visible love for Skaia for years. Hence "candy rot".

Personally I feel like revisiting Skaia would be a great opportunity to try and untangle it's will from the machinations of LE (if that's even possible) mostly because it's hard to tell the difference between them when they are seemingly coequal and immutable as the alpha timeline (especially in early Homestuck). There are deeper depths to delve that this I'm sure, but LE himself could be more interesting and I just think it's neat.

[calamityCons]

Skaia’s designs, the game mechanics and systems of Sburb, and the characters’ reaction and interaction with it was what drew me into homestuck in the first place. It really does suck, in my book, that the parts I thought were the coolest get progressively ignored and kicked aside in favor of things I don’t think are as cool.

[thorondraco]

Hussie is either an eldritch genius or he is simply skilled at taking a mistake and running with it. Or both.

It's both but your musings are practically a little under a decade late. As in if Hussie wanted to do something with Skaia this far into Homestuck official, he'd have done it before ending the comic in 2016 and it doesn't seem as if the current writing team will pick up that ball either. It doesn't matter if Hussie lost interest or is simply playing 4d chess with Skaia though; It's undeniable that there has been little visible love for Skaia for years. Hence "candy rot".

Personally I feel like revisiting Skaia would be a great opportunity to try and untangle it's will from the machinations of LE (if that's even possible) mostly because it's hard to tell the difference between them when they are seemingly coequal and immutable as the alpha timeline (especially in early Homestuck). There are deeper depths to delve that this I'm sure, but LE himself could be more interesting and I just think it's neat.

Honestly i think that is the plan. Dirk is hijacking a session, presumably a super important one apparently, so likely a big part of Homestuck^2 is learning the origin of sburb and its mechanics, including Skaia itself.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

post

You complained about thorondraco's rambling, but the first sentence in your latest post is 91 words long; I didn't measure the other sentences, but I feel like it gets worse from there.

You're saying something about the focus on the setting is being overpowered by the focus on the characters, but what is the distinction?

I don't think the settings in Homestuck are particularly neglected. It's more like they're intentionally barren. SBURB targets socially isolated people, those who would not miss anybody or be missed if the world ended. (I'm calling it SBURB instead of Skaia. I think of Skaia as the weird cloudy n-dimensional planet, and SBURB as the whole organism game thing.)

Take this line from the MSPA Wik:

Karkat's hive, along with Sollux's hive, seem to be the only hives surrounded by other trolls. [sic]

In Pesterquest, these hives around Karkat's hive were revealed to also belong to Karkat, so that he'd never be homeless even when the drones targeted him. Contrast Homestuck's emptiness with Hiveswap Friendsim, where MSPA reader meets a bunch of cool trolls with bustling lives. Heck, even though we don't see much of Earth, Joey Claire goes to school and talks to her classmates. Alternia feels like a modern 2010s society in Friendsim, whereas in Hivebent it's just a collection of disparate hives in the middle of nowhere owned by a dozen diverse trolls.

SBURB goes out of its way to isolate people. Becquerel prevents Jade from seeing the world; Doc Scratch makes sure Kanaya feels the warmth of the sun so she can't mingle with other jade bloods; Skaia sends two baby meteors 413 years into the future; Gamzee sets up a weird room for the cherubs to make sure they use computers.

The fan adventure Nepetaquest 2011 doesn't make much sense to me because, in it, Nepeta has friends outside of the twelve. What the heck? You'd have to be a total asshole to knowingly play a world-ending game and not torrent it to your other friends. It'd make more sense if you didn't have other friends to invite. Later on, the situation diverges to make it clear that this is an AU where nobody plays SGRUB, but I didn't know that at the time.

The one thing I don't get is how the four beta human kids found each other in the first place. each other, and nobody else. it's weird.

if i were to design my own sburb session, i'd force the entire planet population into a long chain. see how f'd up it'd get.

[burnt2ashleys]

Since you complained about my "rambling", I added 2 line br8ks to that previous post, I hope that clears some stuff up.

I don't think the settings in Homestuck are particularly neglected. It's more like they're intentionally barren. SBURB targets socially isolated people, those who would not miss anybody or be missed if the world ended.

You write "intentionally barren" like that's a feature and not a flaw of the comic, and that just ain't the thang, dog. Of course I get it that Andrew wouldn't want to draw bustling cities in a comic he updated multiple times a day for, drawing is hard! I understand that, and he even said as much! To compare or contrast the circumstances of Homestuck's development with Friendsim, whose entire focus is on these trolls and their society (and even then, one could argue it comes out short compared to Homestuck proper, which is saying something), would be simply ignoring a great deal of factors which made both be the way they are. There ARE reasons for such discrepancies, but they're more rooted in external factors (1 author VS many, time, fandom, in regards to this example) than them being subject to a(n arguably) nebulous internal logic. The curtains are blue because the author used the fill tool, simple as.

This, in turn, hooks into what I've been repeatedly trying to say: The setting being just nebulous enough for the characters to do their jingle-jangle walkie-talkie act doesn't cut it anymore. For the story to be balanced and feel even more cohesive than theorists could ever dare to conjecture to be, the setting HAS to have a defined internal logic and rules, these things HAVE to be addressed. And once again, for the third time, this does not mean that this change would go against the core message of these kids/now teenagers/now adults talking about their feelings through the Internet (or whatever it is that Homestuck² is about), this would be strictly beneficial for every party involved here. For one, defined rules give the fandom even more material to create more sensible fanfiction and headcanons, as well as make the creators' job much easier by having something to adhere to and jump off of if the situation needs it.

Again, the people in charge are very, very skilled, but they don't have anything to latch onto, there's a disconnect between setting and cast (and, as an addendum, I would argue that this disconnect has reached its apex through the retcon and the declaration of non-canonicity, because now settings are but a projection of a probably real place in the setting, maybe even more of a projection/simulation than the dreambubbles could ever hope to be), and this disconnect does nothing but harm to the overall health of the story. Hence, the necessary addressing of the setting. And, another argument to be made here: If you want to preserve Homestuck's longevity as a story, the setting is your best bet, because characters may come and go (hell, isn't it a joke that characters get killed all the time?), but if the setting stays, there's always space for new casts, new protags, new antags, new stories. And in a setting as compound and expansive as Homestuck's, there's (dare I say) unlimited potential for stories to be built here. However, this can only happen if you allow Skaia, SBURB, Paradox Space and beyond to be built upon.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

Since you complained about my "rambling", I added 2 line br8ks to that previous post, I hope that clears some stuff up.

It does. Thank you.

I don't think the settings in Homestuck are particularly neglected. It's more like they're intentionally barren. SBURB targets socially isolated people, those who would not miss anybody or be missed if the world ended.

like that's a feature and not a flaw

Yes, I tend to do that in general. I meant to talk about the barrenness as a neglected aspect of the setting to be explored. Exploring the setting will help inform our understandings of the characters, and vice versa. This connection between environment and personality is made explicit with prototypings: The prototypings of the sprites modify the dress codes of the Prospitians and Dersites. The kernelsprites are attracted to dead things, but more generally they're attracted to objects of humiliation and failure. That tends to be dead things and doomed selves because dying is a most epic fail. Jack Noir doesn't like wearing clothes that represent stupidity (harlequin), self-loathing (harlequin), gender (tentacle princess), childishness, naivety (jaspers), carelessness (sword), and bird (bird).

The prototyped kernels also turn into sprites, guides that teach the players things. This symbolizes the idea of "learning from your mistakes." Cal is a terrible sprite because the only thing you can learn from randomness is learned helplessness.

Aradia weaponized this against the game by prototyping with a frog statue -- frogs are so humiliating and sinful that the Black Queen straight-up resigned -- but the prototyping still tells you something about her. For Aradia, the frog represents the lack of control she has over her circumstances.

AA: i cant really c0ntr0l the ribbits

There's also Malo's theory that the houses of the characters represent the psychologies of the characters. He already did a good job describing that so I won't bother.

Perhaps the way to defeat Candy Rot, the way to combat the desolate setting, is to log off and go outside. On Earth C, the winners managed to do that physically, but not mentally. Even though they are famous and popular as Gods on Earth C, they are not able to connect with the commoner populace on a deeper level. Jade got the closest to doing so, but even then she only sees people outside her circle as NPC sex objects.

I don't think I'll be logging off any time soon, but that's an idea. We're going to need more ideas. Wow. I hope you can think of something better. (citation for the joke reference. not actually relevant.)

Incidentally, when I watch the Monogatari series (Bakemonogatari, Nisemonogatari, etc.), Araragi only sees the relevant characters: women, girls, and adult men. I think that's pretty funny. He really is heterosexual.