(Jade and Rose: Explain everything.) [HS^2 UP8]

[RoyalFiddle]

In any case this update has solidified my negative bias towards jade into dislike. She's now on the same tier as eridan. Really I think the only moments I liked jade are in her convos with karkat act 5.

Huh, that's an interesting outlook. What makes you dislike her so?

[Generalrabogolfo]

In any case this update has solidified my negative bias towards jade into dislike. She's now on the same tier as eridan. Really I think the only moments I liked jade are in her convos with karkat act 5.

>hating jade for wanting a family

[BrobyDDark]

In any case this update has solidified my negative bias towards jade into dislike. She's now on the same tier as eridan. Really I think the only moments I liked jade are in her convos with karkat act 5.

>hating jade for wanting a family

>hating Jade for coming between two married people that ended up hurting both after coming between two bros who loved eachother and then pretending to be the victim

[Generalrabogolfo]

In any case this update has solidified my negative bias towards jade into dislike. She's now on the same tier as eridan. Really I think the only moments I liked jade are in her convos with karkat act 5.

>hating jade for wanting a family

>hating Jade for coming between two married people that ended up hurting both after coming between two bros who loved eachother and then pretending to be the victim

>hating someone who was raised by a dog and who has no clue how to read subtle social signals

[BrobyDDark]

>hating jade for wanting a family

>hating Jade for coming between two married people that ended up hurting both after coming between two bros who loved eachother and then pretending to be the victim

>hating someone who was raised by a dog and who has no clue how to read subtle social signals

>hating someone who has had decades to learn and understand social signals, or at the very least the basics of "don't mess with other people's relationships"

[Generalrabogolfo]

>hating Jade for coming between two married people that ended up hurting both after coming between two bros who loved eachother and then pretending to be the victim

>hating someone who was raised by a dog and who has no clue how to read subtle social signals

>hating someone who has had decades to learn and understand social signals, or at the very least the basics of "don't mess with other people's relationships"

>hating jade when in both situations the others are equally, if not more, guilty

[ZingDev]

i don't really hate jade, thought rose just lost some rung of my favorite character.

[AsherCrane]

>hating someone who was raised by a dog and who has no clue how to read subtle social signals

>hating someone who has had decades to learn and understand social signals, or at the very least the basics of "don't mess with other people's relationships"

>hating jade when in both situations the others are equally, if not more, guilty

Well, Kanaya didn’t know as a whole, and Jade says (with reference to Karkat and Dave)
“JADE: i knew the plans they had for each other even when they didnt!!!
JADE: and it was clear that i didnt fit into those plans
JADE: but they just wouldnt ADMIT it!!”

So, at the very least, I would really say it’s only Rose that has equal, if not more blame in either case, since Dave and Karkat clearly weren’t even aware of what they wanted.

Plus, the whole “Can’t read social cues” bit isn’t really an excuse when, in the same quote I pasted above, she clearly knew she was butting in at some point.


On a different note, I wonder if Kanaya is really a lot more bitter and angry than she’s letting on at the moment, and she’s just trying to either control or bury it at the moment. Not everybody blows up when they get angry, and having looked through the Alterniabound transcript, Kanaya was mostly passive aggressive toward Vriska after she kissed Tavros. She barely talked to her, and then during Alterniabound mostly just gave stunted answers rather than getting downright angry.

[thorondraco]

>hating someone who has had decades to learn and understand social signals, or at the very least the basics of "don't mess with other people's relationships"

>hating jade when in both situations the others are equally, if not more, guilty

Well, Kanaya didn’t know as a whole, and Jade says (with reference to Karkat and Dave)
“JADE: i knew the plans they had for each other even when they didnt!!!
JADE: and it was clear that i didnt fit into those plans
JADE: but they just wouldnt ADMIT it!!”

So, at the very least, I would really say it’s only Rose that has equal, if not more blame in either case, since Dave and Karkat clearly weren’t even aware of what they wanted.

Plus, the whole “Can’t read social cues” bit isn’t really an excuse when, in the same quote I pasted above, she clearly knew she was butting in at some point.


On a different note, I wonder if Kanaya is really a lot more bitter and angry than she’s letting on at the moment, and she’s just trying to either control or bury it at the moment. Not everybody blows up when they get angry, and having looked through the Alterniabound transcript, Kanaya was mostly passive aggressive toward Vriska after she kissed Tavros. She barely talked to her, and then during Alterniabound mostly just gave stunted answers rather than getting downright angry.

Kanaya is definitely the type to hold her emotions in check. It may even be she is doing so until they get Yiffy to safety. Once Yiffy is safe, she is gonna REALLY lay into both jade and Rose...
One thing people ARE forgetting is that Yiffy is currently held hostage by Jane.

That or she is afraid it would get inappropriate really quickly. Trolls have this bad habit of... making out with people they are totally pissed at. At least the ones they don't loath in their entirety. Aradia rage kissed equiss. So did a rather emotionally unstable Vriska. Maybe kanaya is worried she would hatekiss Jade in front of everyone.

[trying]

In any case this update has solidified my negative bias towards jade into dislike. She's now on the same tier as eridan. Really I think the only moments I liked jade are in her convos with karkat act 5.

Huh, that's an interesting outlook. What makes you dislike her so?

I don't know, I've never been super into her character. It wasn't really dislike until this update. The short answer would probably be that I see a lack of genuine effort to confront her internal struggles post sburb.

How they've been writing jade since the epilogues actually reminds me of jade-sprite. I always found jade-sprite annoying, and divorced from what I felt was jade's true character. I thought it was interesting how prolonged time in dream bubbles can warp personalities, and how jade sort of ate that personality whole after ascending. Now, with her reminding me more of jade-sprite, it makes me wonder if A. she had the potential to become that person all along, or B. jade-sprite is now appearing in her waking personality. In either case it makes for somewhat of an interesting thought, and in pseudo-reality it's probably a mix of both. But at the end of the day, that's all her arc is for me, somewhat interesting, and there is no shortage of other directions and perspectives the narrative could focus on that I'd enjoy more than jade's arc.

As for the "she was raised by a dog and doesn't know how to act" stuff, and the "she just wanted a family" stuff, I'll say this: Intentions, their manifestations as behaviors, and the impact those behaviors have on others, are all important. I don't value one over the others, and keep my feelings about each separated. I definitely don't have an issue with someone desparately wanting a family , I can't and won't fault her for that; however, she didn't manifest those intentions into behaviors that are aligned with my ideas of what's healthy. Finally, it seems to have had a dubiously harmful impact.

I'm not going to say she's evil, or acted in an unjustifiable way, but that doesn't mean I can't dislike her, or recognize she made decisions different from the ones I like to think I would have made.

[overThinker]

In any case this update has solidified my negative bias towards jade into dislike. She's now on the same tier as eridan. Really I think the only moments I liked jade are in her convos with karkat act 5.

i don't mean to devalue your opinion by saying that "it was intended, you're missing the point," but i think it kind of was? as absurd as this development is, it definitely seems characteristic of the candy timeline so far, and i think it's just a symptom of there no longer being any universe-threatening villains for them to deal with. forgive me if i'm stating the obvious, but i think the purpose of the candy timeline is to show that all of the main characters have hugely dysfunctional personalities when forced to live normal lives, and that they rely on their role as "heroes" striving towards a common goal to give them purpose.

so jade's insensitivity doesn't really surprise me much, especially considering that this jade grew up alone and then spent another three years alone. her pivotal developmental years were undermined by her social isolation, which i'm presenting as a reason, not an excuse, for her behavior. so i guess i'm saying that i think that your annoyance should be directed at the candy timeline rather than jade herself.

i'll concede that yiffany is an inexcusable name though lmao

edit: just realized you replied

yeah again i think her lack of responsibility for her struggles is just another symptom of the candy timeline. homestuck up until the end gave her no incentive to confront them, which i think explains her actions.

[trying]

i don't mean to devalue your opinion by saying that "it was intended, you're missing the point," but i think it kind of was?

I 100% agree that it's probably intentional. They wanted me to dislike her and it worked lol. Sorta like vriska. Only problem is that unlike vriska I'm a lot less interested. I mention it being similar to jade-sprite for me, cuz I think they did the same thing there. I think jade-sprite was "intentionally" dislikable. But still, jade's character and what she grapples with is just not as interesting to me as others.

[AsherCrane]

i don't mean to devalue your opinion by saying that "it was intended, you're missing the point," but i think it kind of was?

I 100% agree that it's probably intentional. They wanted me to dislike her and it worked lol. Sorta like vriska. Only problem is that unlike vriska I'm a lot less interested. I mention it being similar to jade-sprite for me, cuz I think they did the same thing there. I think jade-sprite was "intentionally" dislikable. But still, jade's character and what she grapples with is just not as interesting to me as others.

In the book commentaries, AH calls Jadesprite a splinter of Jade, similar to Davesprite or the several Dirk ones, so I imagine that definitely implies this kind of person was insider her all along. Or at least the potential for it.

[thorondraco]

Bonus update came and spoilers


THE ENTIRE FUCKING THING WAS DIRK COMPLAINING ABOUT YIFFY XD OH my fucking god those madlad maniacs knew it all along! Motherfucker!


We also get the implication that Hussie is in some way involved. An observer if you will. Someone else seems to be pulling the strings in terms of narrative. Could be alt calliope herself, or another...
But most of all... Dirk is scared of Yiffy. What the fuck IS it about yiffy he fears so much?

[ZingDev]

Bonus update came and spoilers


THE ENTIRE FUCKING THING WAS DIRK COMPLAINING ABOUT YIFFY XD OH my fucking god those madlad maniacs knew it all along! Motherfucker!


We also get the implication that Hussie is in some way involved. An observer if you will. Someone else seems to be pulling the strings in terms of narrative. Could be alt calliope herself, or another...
But most of all... Dirk is scared of Yiffy. What the fuck IS it about yiffy he fears so much?

I hated that conversation because it assumes people would hate Yiffy and she is the problem, but that's not it, it's the fact that they ruined Jade as a good person and Rose as a good wife when they could have easily not done that. Yiffy would have been loved as a character, i think she still would be loved, but the cost of that is still too big.

[Generalrabogolfo]

Bonus update came and spoilers


THE ENTIRE FUCKING THING WAS DIRK COMPLAINING ABOUT YIFFY XD OH my fucking god those madlad maniacs knew it all along! Motherfucker!


We also get the implication that Hussie is in some way involved. An observer if you will. Someone else seems to be pulling the strings in terms of narrative. Could be alt calliope herself, or another...
But most of all... Dirk is scared of Yiffy. What the fuck IS it about yiffy he fears so much?

I hated that conversation because it assumes people would hate Yiffy and she is the problem, but that's not it, it's the fact that they ruined Jade as a good person and Rose as a good wife when they could have easily not done that. Yiffy would have been loved as a character, i think she still would be loved, but the cost of that is still too big.

this. so much this.

[pfeffer-29]

Intentionally bad writing is still bad writing. I can't stress this enough. There are many ways that the writers could've made it obvious that the timelines were flawed without making their entire story unreadable. Oh yeah, and Strawman Dirk is back with a vengeance. As ZingDev said,

I hated that conversation because it assumes people would hate Yiffy and she is the problem, but that's not it, it's the fact that they ruined Jade as a good person and Rose as a good wife when they could have easily not done that. Yiffy would have been loved as a character, i think she still would be loved, but the cost of that is still too big.

This is not clever. This is mind-numbingly stupid. Especially for a project that is entirely funded by the people who read it. I don't care if the timelines reconcile or whatever and the result is a masterwork of literature, because the setup is intentionally and avoidably awful. Jesus christ, all I wanted was an ending!

I'm tired. I should be doing work but instead I'm typing about a story I'm not sure I like anymore.

Homestuck^2 feels like a mediocre fanfiction, which is intentional on the writers' part. That doesn't make it any easier to read or smarter or more enjoyable. Maybe I should just drop it and find a good fic to read and pretend it never happened.

[luigi]

I personally feel this bonus update justified the Yiffy update. I do not at all see Dirk as the antagonist I'm siding with him all the way here. As long as Dirk stays true to himself (and brings Meat John back to life) he has my support. Also I love the parallels between him and Caliborn, both trying to call on Hussie for out-of-game wisdom.

Oh and my favourite quote was how even chaos has rules: A Hurricane will blow your house down but can't set it on fire. I thought that was really clever.

Every update and bonus update puts me through this cycle of:

Homestuck^2 is fucking AWESOME
Wait never mind it's a bunch of bullshit
Alright I guess that's fine
OH SHIT JOHN!!! ! <3
Goddammit this sucks Homestuck is ruined
WAIT NEVERMIND THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER THE PAST UPDATES ARE JUSTIFIED!

repeat forever

[trying]

I personally feel this bonus update justified the Yiffy update. I do not at all see Dirk as the antagonist I'm siding with him all the way here. As long as Dirk stays true to himself (and brings Meat John back to life) he has my support. Also I love the parallels between him and Caliborn, both trying to call on Hussie for out-of-game wisdom.

Oh and my favourite quote was how even chaos has rules: A Hurricane will blow your house down but can't set it on fire. I thought that was really clever.

Every update and bonus update puts me through this cycle of:

Homestuck^2 is fucking AWESOME
Wait never mind it's a bunch of bullshit
Alright I guess that's fine
OH SHIT JOHN!!! ! <3
Goddammit this sucks Homestuck is ruined
WAIT NEVERMIND THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER THE PAST UPDATES ARE JUSTIFIED!

repeat forever

I wish there were ways other than patreon to get access to the bonus updates. They only seem to be getting more and more plot relevant. I rarely shop online and don't use paid online subscription services, and I'm not going to make an exception for hs2 bonues updates out of annoyance or inconvinience, especially when I don't want to contribute to the profitablility of paywalling or the propagation of patreon itself, but that's not out of an unwillingness to help support the project, it's out of an unwillingness to budge on some unrelated principles. ah well. guess i'll carry that weight.

[Generalrabogolfo]

I personally feel this bonus update justified the Yiffy update. I do not at all see Dirk as the antagonist I'm siding with him all the way here. As long as Dirk stays true to himself (and brings Meat John back to life) he has my support. Also I love the parallels between him and Caliborn, both trying to call on Hussie for out-of-game wisdom.

Oh and my favourite quote was how even chaos has rules: A Hurricane will blow your house down but can't set it on fire. I thought that was really clever.

Every update and bonus update puts me through this cycle of:

Homestuck^2 is fucking AWESOME
Wait never mind it's a bunch of bullshit
Alright I guess that's fine
OH SHIT JOHN!!! ! <3
Goddammit this sucks Homestuck is ruined
WAIT NEVERMIND THIS IS THE GREATEST THING EVER THE PAST UPDATES ARE JUSTIFIED!

repeat forever

I wish there were ways other than patreon to get access to the bonus updates. They only seem to be getting more and more plot relevant. I rarely shop online and don't use paid online subscription services, and I'm not going to make an exception for hs2 bonues updates out of annoyance or inconvinience, especially when I don't want to contribute to the profitablility of paywalling or the propagation of patreon itself, but that's not out of an unwillingness to help support the project, it's out of an unwillingness to budge on some unrelated principles. ah well. guess i'll carry that weight.

yeah..... its a real shame we dont have other ways to access the update...... truly....... a real shame........