Can I ask for positive opinions on Epilogues/HS^2?

[[Jeans1826]]

This forum seems to be really down on them in my experience, and desu I've enjoyed basically all of both.

[galileanTactician]

I'm not a fan of the epilogue, but one of the few things that I absolutely loved were Dave and Karkat talking shit about the econony. That was one of the few sincerely funny moments of the entire story.

[BrobyDDark]

Johnrezi good. That's about all you c'n get outta me, though, unfortunately.

[cyberKinetist]

I really liked the Epilogues, but a bit disappointed about HS^2 (but yeah I should cut the writers some slack because it's still the beginning, I think it would take some time to build up)

[Barraskewda]

Johnrezi was handled really well and that's about it really.

[thorondraco]

I am quite liking Homestuck^2 so far. Its going slow but we are in the settup phases.

Generally i liked the epilogues cause they created a lot of interesting potential story stuff. Also i went into it worried that they wouldn't be able to wrap things up at all considering all the wayward threads. Turns out that wasn't part of the plan to begin with, amusingly enough.

I won't lie that the epilogues did not have some weird stuff though and that the writing needed a bit more polish. I think a lot of issues with characterization had to do with Dirk being inexperienced and wanting literally everyone to hate him eventually. But that could also be seen as kind of a handicap or excuse. Course that can be mitigated by having characters that were fucked with being better written and even showing what the manipulations did to them.

I also really like the Meta nature of the homestuck unvierse. And the ultimate self is fascinating and raises many, many questions to answer. Why does the awakening kill the host? How come Dirk survived.

More than anything its about a character in this universe seizing control for his own designs. John held similar power, but he was too afraid to wield it.

[MorganMustDie]

I really really really liked the epilogues, personally. As someone who spent literally all of my teen years engulfed in Homestuck, it was super fascinating and refreshing to watch the characters I grew up with experience adult stuff the same way that I am these days.

Finding out your friends are wildly different politically? Relationship issues being a lot more serious and more than high school level drama? Hate fucking in your dad's car while orbiting a black hole? These are all things that we all eventually go through for real when we get older.

I didn't really understand why people were so upset about the character development in the epilogues because they all make so much sense to me. Of course Jane is a racist capitalist, she was a rich white girl who was about to be nepotism'd into controlling the biggest corporation on the planet. Of course Dirk wound up the controlling puppet master, he was always putting an emphasis on being ten steps ahead, having secret irons in the fire, and thinking of the bigger picture. Of course John is depressed, he's a fuckin nerd boy with identity issues.

It hurt to read, for sure, but there was a catharsis to it. I relate to the struggles of the epilogues in a much more human way than I related to Homestuck proper, and to me that was such a rewarding and exciting experience.

[ZingDev]

The epilogues was a good ending for me. like if we were primarily focused on John and the state he was left after the credits, Candy pretty much resolves that, meat resolves Terezi's black-hole adventure as well as caliborn's masterpiece. and while there is still more stuff going on, i really only cared about John at the end of homestuck. Meat made me realized that homestuck was no longer for me, but at least candy felt satisfying as an ending. could have been better though.

[pfeffer-29]

Johnrezi and Roxygen were cute. I don't ship them, but I didn't mind them happening.
Candy's ending was sort of satisfying and I found its character drama to be compelling for the most part. John's depression was well-written. Also, the Vriskas' dead clown feelings jam was surprisingly great.
HS^2's art is consistently good.

[sorbicCondition]

I've always been a Dirk fan, and my favorite fan-works involving Dirk were the ones that got weird and metatextual. Needless to say, I adore where the epilogues went, and I adore where Homestuck^2 is going.

Also, regardless of my Dirk-bias, I just don't think Homestuck could have kept telling a coming of age story forever. Shifting the focus onto the struggles of adulthood was a really good move, even if it might alienate the younger audience a tad. Besides that, the writing is good, the art is amazing, and the characters are still as endearing as ever. I try to avoid talking about the new authors since it seems to open up a whole can of discourse, but they all seem like genuinely good people so that's a bonus too.

So, that's my take. I do get why a lot of people here aren't fans, it's certainly not anywhere similar to pre-Act 5 Homestuck, but I don't get what you're still doing interacting with the fandom at this level if you've hated the past year+ of content (unless you're actively engaged with community projects).

[pfeffer-29]

[...]I don't get what you're still doing interacting with the fandom at this level if you've hated the past year+ of content (unless you're actively engaged with community projects).

Because the story's not done. Homestuck's ending provided little closure and the Epilogues/HS^2 have opened the wound anew. I want a satisfying ending. I'm too invested in the characters to leave, no matter how much it would benefit my mental state. Because maybe, just maybe, the writers will get their acts together and make something better. I want to believe they will.

Also, Hiveswap is pretty great so far.

[JakeMorph]

i think the Dirk-as-narrator reveal was probably one of the highlights of the whole story Act 1 onwards, and it really changed the way i looked at the narrative!

[thorondraco]

i think the Dirk-as-narrator reveal was probably one of the highlights of the whole story Act 1 onwards, and it really changed the way i looked at the narrative!

The idea that Dirk could have narrated some parts of homestuck is an imposing one. I don't think ti was an ' all along' thing cause we know Hussie was in fact the narrator. But post Hussie death, i think that becomes a big question mark. Especially around the end when it seems like Hussie's powers are at their most waned.

Far as we know Retcon was in part triggered by Dirk making his voice loud enough for Vriska to hear. Far as we know we only see the Furthest ring parts at all because of Dirk considering what Aradia says about how the Void is a giant ass blindspot to the 'powers that be' in pesterquest. A derse player may be granted sight there, especially if he is collaborating with horror terrors.

That damn statement comes up again.

DIRK: One which will be of our own creation, but which by all practical considerations might as well have always been there.

That is the scary as shit part of these narrative nonsense is that changes can be made and unless the guy behind it shows his hand, you never know what was the original state of things or what was the actions of another. The moment Dirk survived the ultimate awakening, however he did, his influence might have always been destined to happen.

I do think he fucked with shit but we don't know when or how. A big weakness in the theory is, how would he influence things from before he gained narrative power? His and calliope's version of narrative stuff has a kind of range. Hussie's encompasses an entire narrative, albeit he himself has no other powers and is a wimpy boy you could bludgeon to death with a pool noodle.

If he can project himself into versions of himself in the past though that kinda expands the kind of nonsense he can do by magnitudes. Arguably as far back as act 1 with Bro's presence. And give him a steep advantage over alt calliope.

O.o
WE were talking about how whether or not Doc Scratch has narrative powers in the other post. What if he does, but only because of Dirk all along?

[thorondraco]

i think the Dirk-as-narrator reveal was probably one of the highlights of the whole story Act 1 onwards, and it really changed the way i looked at the narrative!

Hussie dies in act six right?

[JakeMorph]

the first andrew avatar dies in Act 6 Intermission 1, on page 4810. dirk was introduced about 400 pages earlier.

i don't think it's so easy to rule out the possibility that dirk had his grubby fingers on the narrative earlier on, though. andrew's book commentary asks us a rather pertinent question when his avatar makes its first visual appearance in the comic:

The orange fingers are my fingers. Why are they orange? Let's not answer that question.

[thorondraco]

the first andrew avatar dies in Act 6 Intermission 1, on page 4810. dirk was introduced about 400 pages earlier.

i don't think it's so easy to rule out the possibility that dirk had his grubby fingers on the narrative earlier on, though. andrew's book commentary asks us a rather pertinent question when his avatar makes its first visual appearance in the comic:

The orange fingers are my fingers. Why are they orange? Let's not answer that question.

Not long after it seems. The death of hussie caused a major shift in the comic i feel in more ways than one. However intended by the real life hussie it was or wasn't initially.

you sure we can't just speculate down a rabbit hole? Cause its hard not to XD.

I like the idea that there is a somewhta direct connection between hussie and dirk. But i hope it isn't anything as extreme was 'he was the one behind homestuck the whole time'. That would be hard to swallow. But i like the idea he started influencing things after Hussie's death in various ways. I think largely the blank spaces between panel and prose. The malleable dark spots in the audience awareness. Ripe for exploitation.

Dirk is 100% doing multiple things at once. Multitasking is his mo and he needs to exploit it to its fullest against Calliope. I am almost convinced that Hiveswap is one of them and it feeds into his overarching plan somehow, fruition of the manipulation of those dark spots between panels. What we can't guess yet. But maybe that explains how it exists. It is part of Homestuck^2. OR became part of it at some point.

be clear i mean why it existence in universe.

[Joyfulldreams]

The only nice thing I have to say about the epilogues is that dave, karkat, john, and terezi are delights almost every time they appear. (Almost every time. Almost.) Ships or no ships.

Other than that I am probably one of the most intense epilogue-haters out there but I always support spreading positivity so this is my contribution. I must now bounce out of this thread immediately before I transform into a fire-breathing rage dragon.

[egg]

You can say that Dirk is kind of the author even if he was not involved with the comic before the author avatar dies or even before the Epilogues, because Andrew Hussie has admitted that the characters most like him are Dave and Dirk.

[thorondraco]

You can say that Dirk is kind of the author even if he was not involved with the comic before the author avatar dies or even before the Epilogues, because Andrew Hussie has admitted that the characters most like him are Dave and Dirk.

DAve is the foe coolguy act of his. Dirk is the backasswards over complicated eldritch mind.

[Rob]

You can say that Dirk is kind of the author even if he was not involved with the comic before the author avatar dies or even before the Epilogues, because Andrew Hussie has admitted that the characters most like him are Dave and Dirk.

Yeah, I think Dirk in the Epilogues acts as Hussie's avatar. Dirk!Hussie has been the author from the beginning: his shards are not just the Dirk shards but all the characters of Homestuck. I thoroughly enjoy the epilogues for this reason and wrote more on it in the Dirk thread here.