Homestuck.XYZ 2.0

So before Homestuck got its Epilogues there were some theories buzzing around that, because of one of Caliborn's fanart he drew while predicting the future of the story, he was going to possess either John or Jake.



This didn't really seem to come to pass. He possesses Jack Noir but gains nothing resembling the features he did in the process. Jack is a chess man with a hard carapace shell, not nearly bishonen enough to pass for something similar to this drawing. Caliborn, though he draws fairly crappily, still maintains some of the essence of the characters he was expressing like Dave, Karkat, and even Davepeta. So then, who is this? LE dies when AltCalliope eats his body and there is absolutely totally no way he can come back, right?

Well, before he was thrown into the pit of unimportant bullshit, LE poisoned John with some kind of weird damn poison that was slowly killing him. He dies and Terezi takes his body along with her on Dirk's whirlwind adventure to do more shit and keep the story rolling. He's effectively the author for the moment and John is dead forever! No more John.

But, what if John comes back? But, maybe not in the way that people would want.......what if........CALIBORN possesses his body?!



Now this I think sounds pretty out there until you start tracing things about John's journey. John always narratively occupied the space as the 'audience self insert', the emptiest of the kids to project onto in his inoffensive ability to be friendly with most everyone while maintaining the illusion of being his own person. He is the protagonist, the everyman, The Guy. He is, effectively, the PERFECT vessel once all his individuality is destroyed and his body left like a puppet with its strings cut. John, over the course of the story, has also accrued INCREDIBLE power with his Retcon abilities. His power over the story would be phenomenal, if John ever had the incentive to change things to his own liking. John, despite all this power, never really uses it in such an incredible way, and instead changes reality thanks to Terezi's own roadmap. His strengths are so intimidating that even Dirk appears eager to throw John in the trash if it means he doesn't threaten his control, even remotely.

Such a body would be a PHENOMENAL boon to posses explicitly but only one character shows the actual gumption to do such a thing to that degree, and moreso have a superior grudge against John that he would not only kill him but parade around in his body in some macabre display, a huge disservice to the Heir of Breath as a person even in his memory. John has had a death flag on him since Doc Scratch saying he would not die an ignoble death. John's key weapon is a Zilly weapon, which has roots in Cherub lore!

Speaking of Doc Scratch, Dirk comes DANGEROUSLY close to parroting his favorite line about being an 'excellent host'. If Dirk is the Doc Scratch, he'll precede the actual main star of the show, and set the stage for his master to once again take the stage. A Prince is merely the son of a Lord, but he may not actually be the true Heir.

I'll leave with some text I wrote inspired by this. Enjoy Caliborn-style lines under the cut, but if you get triggered by how misogynistic he is or whatever then please don't open it. I warned you, you're responsible now. We share a social contract written in fake internet blood.

I'll have to say I believe this might happen. Mostly because of reasons, first is that Jade. Who's actually John's ectobiological sister is currently under possession of Calliope, second the process of posession involved being impaled with some sort of spacey thingy. . . Kind of similar to what happened to John so what's to say if that thing probably had Calliopes poison and probably would explain why that Jade died. This also would mean the sibling cherub conflict would go on.

Another thing is that it's kind of ominous that John's corpse is being dragged around with Dirk. There's no ring of life or any life player to poof him back with life. So it makes me suspect said corpse is being saved for something.

Thirdly it shouldn't be a surprise but remember that Lord English is some kind of multiversal virus so it wouldn't be surprising if he has had various vessels in order to summon him. The destruction of one vessel does jack shit to him at all and the only way to "purge" the dude is with glitches and exploits.

Fourth thing is that let's remember how many people have taken the mantle of narrator. Yeah. Caliborn is there as a narrator. Remember the whole masterpiece? He narrated that stuff. Or even before that he drew narrated his shitty ass version of homestuck. Which makes me believe he might wrestle with calliope and dirk over controlling the story.

I have had similar thoughts about John's body and what the hell might happen to it. I absolutely love where you went with this (especially with your spoilered text - thank you for that.)
Excellent stuff. I'm very much on board with this.

I think this could be a cool direction to take if they don't fuck it up.

The possibilities are wide open with John. Right now, his corpse is just somewhere on the ship. With no one to revive him, they could do anything with him. As long as its being preserved, there's no reason he can't use it a vessel. I would personally love this, especially because of Jade/Calliope.

This might tie into a similar theory floating around about the exact same thing happening to Dirk. As he reaches Ultimate Self status, he must clearly have at least some attachment to the Meat-Retcon version of him that got sucked into Lord English via Arquiusprite. As such, there's a part of Dirk's ultimate consciousness with a direct connection to the big bad himself that, given how Lord English is described as "always finding a way into a new universe," could provide as an in for Lord English having influence over Universe C

This, coupled with a possible LE-infected John could pose an interesting dilemma: what happens when two iterations of Lord English come into contact with one another?

Do they work together for greater destruction?
Do they eliminate each other for supremacy?
Do they turn into bigass snakes and fuck?

Only Hussie knows for sure.

I would be so into this theory if it weren't for June Egbert being canon.

So we're definitely going to see John transition into June in HS^2. Caliborn/Lord English is definitely not going to care at all about whether or not his host body ever felt like a man or a woman - he's pretty firm in being a cool awesome boy. If June wasn't inevitable, I'd argue that John being Lord English/Jade being Calliope would be an extremely awesome concept.

I also feel like Lord English is done? Like, Lord English was the master of Homestuck's canon. Canon existed in order to create and destroy Lord English. We're Beyond Canon now.

seerofheart wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:12 pm

I would be so into this theory if it weren't for June Egbert being canon.

So we're definitely going to see John transition into June in HS^2. Caliborn/Lord English is definitely not going to care at all about whether or not his host body ever felt like a man or a woman - he's pretty firm in being a cool awesome boy. If June wasn't inevitable, I'd argue that John being Lord English/Jade being Calliope would be an extremely awesome concept.

I also feel like Lord English is done? Like, Lord English was the master of Homestuck's canon. Canon existed in order to create and destroy Lord English. We're Beyond Canon now.

Nep wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:02 pm

I'm ready to be proven wrong!

seerofheart wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:12 pm

I also feel like Lord English is done? Like, Lord English was the master of Homestuck's canon. Canon existed in order to create and destroy Lord English. We're Beyond Canon now.

Now this take here is pretty interesting, considering the way that Lord English is built up in Act 5 to this exact mantra. A huge theory floating around when Homestuck first ended was that the whole reason that it ends the way it does is that the in-series Hussie recognises that Lord English can only exist whilst Homestuck exists, and so the only way to destroy him is to destroy Homestuck itself. Ergo we have:





HUSSIE making the most outright declaration of "Lord English, get fucked" during the entire ending battle. This school of thought could be taken even further: rather than it being the ending of Homestuck that destroys Lord English, it's the destruction of Homestuck canon. By taking the epilogues and subsequent works in his multiverse and placing an importance on choice, possibility, and the removal of a concrete "reality," Hussie gives no official timeline or canon for Lord English to latch onto to claw his way back into the story proper.

Then again, we'll see how they handle it in HS^2, because from the looks of things we're already getting a main storyline without much branching. Who knows.

seerofheart wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:17 pm

Nep wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:02 pm

I'm ready to be proven wrong!

Well if you so kindly allow me, but first let me preface it that I'm not fond of the whole June thing.

Now that we are past that clarification. I'll go on and say what's wrong.

seerofheart wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:12 pm

I would be so into this theory if it weren't for June Egbert being canon.

Canon? What canon? We're like already beyond that by now as you said. It literally says "Homestuck^2: Beyond canon". I'm pretty sure debating on what things are canon and what aren't at the moment is a futile effort.

seerofheart wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:12 pm

So we're definitely going to see John transition into June in HS^2.

This part is wrong for a variety of reasons I'll explain. First of all I'd like to say John is dead, he dropped down, kicked the bucket, he's DAOOTS for the moment. I have skepticism that he'll return and there's no current method of revival in check for him (Minus Sprite bullshit and that IS if Dirk says the game is SBURB. Which seems to be likely since we saw a pair of daves copies aboard the Theseus. But I doubt he'd allow it to happen because John is the owner of a power that transcends what Dirk has, remember Dirk is a Control freak and toys with people the same way he uses puppets.)

Secondly. Never in Canon or in this current branch of beyond Canon were stuck in (Epilogue: Meat and Homestuck^2) John had experienced any feelings of dysphoria or comunicated such thoughts. As Grell said before, John is the everyman, the protagonist, THE BIG MAN, The "Star" of the show, so naturally people are going to be drawn to him and potentially self insert themselves in his place which makes him a versatile character to follow and don't you notice we end up rooting for him?

But unlike most people I didn't self insert into him as so willingly other people do. Because he has his own set of troubles. Not the ones we "make up" for him (Like the whole June thing for example).

For example he goes through a stab in the chest for 3 times and we know for a fact pain and temporarily being dead twice can fuck you up mentally (Once on his quest bed. But he was Asleep. Second time was attempting to fight Bec Noir and he suckerstabbed him and the third time was the Gold tooth of LE which seems to kill him for good this time with a mysterious poison that makes him agonize until he died.).

He also went through the death of his father and I have to remind you that the death of a paternal figure can be too much to bear (which mind you Davesprite brought up in poor taste in the battleship.), Has a confusing relationship with Terezi, when he returned to the alpha session after whaling on caliborn his friends were dead and he saw Rose die in front of him and finally we have the source of his current troubles which are the retcon problems.

His friends aren't what they used to be (because duh they're not the originals from GO, they're in essence the same people in appearance and yet they feel so different.) And he's genuinely become alienated from his friends to the point of going almost the hermit path. Also the whole conversation with Rose made him go uneasy like imagine being told you gotta close the loop with the very powers you hesitate to use. . . Especially if said powers can change things on a grand scale, almost as if it was some kind of huge burden entrusted upon you.

Also there's the thing that John seems to bottle up his emotions/feelings and when he does seem to let them out, they actually become destructive. (Look at Adult John in Candy. He fucking snapped there.).

So yeah I'm legitimately skeptical on it happening. Not discouraging anyone who likes June, but this is merely my explanation on why I don't buy it.

seerofheart wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:12 pm

If June wasn't inevitable, I'd argue that John being Lord English/Jade being Calliope would be an extremely awesome concept.

We are currently talking about a corpse that's being dragged around. I doubt that's gonna happen. At that point I have my own separate theory on what's gonna happen to him.

He's gonna detach himself from having a physical body and literally become "homestuck" (as in the comic), as if he was some kind of literal ethereal god that has transcended having a mortal body and at which point the concepts of girl or boy or whatever the fuckzit you think will be irrelevant because he'd be on a level above us measly mortals can't comprehend.

seerofheart wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:12 pm

I also feel like Lord English is done? Like, Lord English was the master of Homestuck's canon. Canon existed in order to create and destroy Lord English. We're Beyond Canon now.

Wrong.

Something such as "canon" is unlikely going to ever stop Lord English. Dude is literally a multiversal virus and we saw him "infect" the trolls and the kids sessions. All he needs is a vessel and we saw that he can infuse himself into stuff like Lil Cal. The current vessels we have seen so far are: Doc Scratch and Jack Noir from the Alpha Kids session, but there might be more sessions that we've never seen infected with him.

A virus breaks stuff and shit. Messes up with everything until it's wrecked. There's even an implication that English had it's dirty hands already on beforus session. (Being part Gamzee it's possible he gave Kurloz nightmares that were so terrifying to have him as a pawn.).

Also his calling card into a session seems to be always a glitch/anomaly and as you know with SBURB it loves glitches and anomalies and yet this proves to be a double edged sword since LE is also able to be eradicated through glitches and exploits (Die's doll for example.).

For all we know that Golden tooth might be LE infused too with some kind of poison that replaces you woth him. LE/Caliborn loves that shit anyway and even big brutes like him have a failsafe incase their vessel were to fail. (Which would probably explain which he didn't chomp on him already like with Dave, he knew the Black Hole was getting stronger and was going to make him gtfo and well... Seeing as John is an ideal vessel with his MANGRIT, Retpowers and windy powers. So he executed his last effort ditch plan to infect John.)

Whew thats a wall of text if I've ever made one. But I don't really have a BKEW tier brain to save my hide. Yet I've put through into it.

Nep wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:45 pm

words words words

That bit about John becoming "etherical " would fit into the whole Breath is freedom thing he already did with retcon, but actually cool and not comic ruining like the retcon.

ive written on this topic myself; TL:DR i think john being 'poisoned' and subsequently unable to regenerate is a parallel to what happened to jade, and the brother-sister pair of the kids' session are fated to become the new avatars for the brother-sister pair that control reality.

part of me DOES agree w the idea that lord english should be "done" now that homestuck 1 is over. but me and a lot of other people were also under the impression that earth c would be a perfect world without space racism and that that would be the end of the story, and since that's clearly not the case i think all bets are off. if dirk strider is still around, lord english may as well be too. they're inherently linked.

I absolutely love this, but also doubt the HS^2 writers are smart enough to do this. Here's hoping.

Nep wrote: ↑

Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:45 pm

wall of text the size of the iron curtain

I can totally dig this, but, as some people has said before, its very unlikely with the kind of writers we are having right now.

considering LE/caliborn was the best character in homestuck, his return in HS^2 is probably the only thing that'd actually make me hopeful for the comic's future. Maybe the reason they never gave him a proper sendoff is because they were just building up to it still, and Hussie planned in advance.
Maybe.