(Jade and Rose: Explain everything.) [HS^2 UP8]

[ThePungeonMaster]

One thing I find interesting is that everyone agrees this update was crazy batshit, but it's interesting to me how strong a divide there is between people who hate it for that reason and people who love it for that reason.

[Shitpost Lizard]

Vriska is always the most blunt dude and always will be.

Also Kanaya is literally from a species that at norm have 4 relationships at once with at least one of them being negative based. In her mind she would see their relationship as the pale spectrum inspite physical sex being involved. She just didn't like the lying part.

Also i find it hilarious cause it seems like neither of them knew what Yiff meant when they named her. And likely it is so difficult to rename people cause those damn carapacians, that the file is still going through to this day.

Vriska being blunt is not the thing I have a problem with. Vriska getting on television and making a big long speech about how awesome she is and how lame everyone else is and then murdering the shit out of everyone is what I have a problem with.
I was sick of this aspect of her character in HS1, and I'm sick of this aspect of her in HS2.
We had a term for that back in my days of internet fandom, and it's called "Mary Sue."

Two of the troll quadrants are platonic. I know they call it a type of romance, but it is still, in human terms, comparable to a type of friendly companionship and mediatorship. So Rose having sex with Jade isn't negated by the idea of 4 quadrants existing, it's only negated by 2. And it's only negated then, if Jade could be seen as a type of kismesis to Rose, which she clearly is not.

My point wasn't that, anyway. It's that apparently Kanaya is fine with her wife having a secret daughter of 15 years because "I wUbZ u NeWay uwu i UnDerStaND."
Even when their relationship has justification for issues and a road-block, we're disregarding it because "uguuu OTP".
It's unrealistic and boring. And just makes Kanaya look like a massive doormat, which does a gigantic disservice to her character.

[thorondraco]

One thing I find interesting is that everyone agrees this update was crazy batshit, but it's interesting to me how strong a divide there is between people who hate it for that reason and people who love it for that reason.

i feel like a lot of them are criticizing hoemstuck^2 over things they loved about the original.
Like this whole Yiffany thing. There is a deliberate and obvious crudeness to this and its batshit that she comes out of nowhere.
I hope it means that she is avoid player.
The problem is that there are so much MORE degenerate things in the original homestuck. Entire poems of homoerotic butfucking, the trolls are an entire species fueled by incest bucket fucking. Jade having a dick isn't even played as some degenerate fetishization, but as a legit and personal issue that she is struggling with.
Heck even Kanaya seeming lack of reaction is people not realizing that trolls don't normally practice monogamy. In Kanaya's view as a troll jade and rose are Morails and rose helped jade. She was just mad about the secret not the relationship.

But yea, this is even cotnent that Hussie not only came up with, though didn't write, but something he DEMANDED would be a part of it all. This is pure hussie. I feel as if Hussie wrote this himself no one would have had such a negative reaciton.it would still be a WTF, but not as negative cause they want to blame the new guys for 'fucking this up'.

And i think its even worse cause it seems like this might have had a negative impact on the patreon too. People being repulsed, by something nowhere near as bad as prior homestuck things, and the patreon numbers are starting to drop. they normally drop after amonth begins as is norm to patreon stuff, but it can't be a coincidence.... And i feel if it is the reason, its very much unjustified. Its hating on homestuck for being homestucky.

[Shitpost Lizard]

This is pure hussie. I feel as if Hussie wrote this himself no one would have had such a negative reaciton.it would still be a WTF, but not as negative cause they want to blame the new guys for 'fucking this up'.

This implies that Hussie is above criticism.
He isn't.

Speaking personally, I'd have a negative reaction regardless. You can dislike things from people who write things that you like.
Creators do not exist solely in states of either perfection or total garbage.

[thorondraco]

This is pure hussie. I feel as if Hussie wrote this himself no one would have had such a negative reaciton.it would still be a WTF, but not as negative cause they want to blame the new guys for 'fucking this up'.

This implies that Hussie is above criticism.
He isn't.

Speaking personally, I'd have a negative reaction regardless. You can dislike things from people who write things that you like.
Creators do not exist solely in states of either perfection or total garbage.

For you, you might have had the same reaction. Other people seem to react because they think someone other than hussie made it, or because they just want tohate it... Or because Rose even could become pregnant in the first place?
i am not joking there are so many people on twitter utterly livid that Rose is cisgender and that its bullshit that she HAD a baby ever. As if it was deliberately hostile action to disprove their headcanon.

Its so hard to say how much of the outrage is actually legitimate outrage, what is misinterpreting the intent, and which is just being assholes at this point. I feel like a large majority of the outrage is, ultimately, that the story is out of Hussie's hands in a direct sense. I think there would be more tolerance, if sitll criticism. And the writing is not perfect by any means either....

But i think people are forgetting something. A common complaint is that it reads like a fanfic... but so did Homestuck originally.


Also i think we msut face the ufnrotuante fact, for the peeps who will be sticking to it and may come in the future, that Yiffy will be normalized as she is liable tobe an ongoing character in the series who we will get to know much like TAvros, vrissy, and harry. She might even be totally awesome a character too.
It is inevitable. Embrace the yiffy!

[classpectanon]

nobody has gotten past the edge of violating the rule yet but remember to keep vriscourse, even epilogue and hs2 vriscourse, to the vriscourse thread

[thorondraco]

To pull away from the yiffy discussions, here are some intersting aspects. It feels as if somehow, Dirk has wormed his way into the candy timeline and is setting something up.
Lets take this into account. Vriska was sent into the black hole seemingly by Dirk's influence. It seems as if he can bypass needing to be in the vicinity by latching onto someone else for a point of view situation. He did it with john, and its possible he did so with Vriska.
Vriska's aura when she transformed seemed to have tones like Dirk's colors too.

In addition an incarnation of dirk appeared in the timeline as the very first thing we see happening in Candy, and more so, they all congregated in the last place Dirk was alive in the Candy timeline.

But now it circles back into the Yiffy discussion. What if Dirk retroactively created yiffy? Used his influence to ensure that Rose consented to the plan. Used a darkspot in the timeline to his advantage. Maybe he wants to somehow get these kids for himself?
Hell maybe its because Yiffy is probs part first guardian and he needs one for his session.

That would explain the inconsistencies a bit! He changed the timeline so that Yiffy can exist.

[Kidpen]

I haven't read the thread but god this update sucked. For one thing they decide to move to the text at the exact moment visuals would've been most effective. Then they go and make Jade's daughter named Yiffany Longstocking for no reason at all, really. Then they made it so they kept her a secret from everyone for the sole reason that they didn't want to admit her name was yiffany longstocking and they couldn't change her legal name. How is that even relevant? If they just said they named her Tiffany who was going to check carapician birth records and dispute that? It could have been handled in a ton of better ways and if it was deliberately handled badly they couldve made it more clear that this is all happening for a reason. God I hated this update.

Honestly I've enjoyed every other update. They had flaws but we're ultimately redeemable. Nothing about this update was good except for the occasional pretty picture and Vriskas monologue.

Don't feel a need to respond to this if it's all already been said Ill read through the thread later.

[homeStank]

Yiffy discussion, blacked out for those who don't wanna hear anymore about her. While I do genuinly think that a lot of the backlash is as intense as it is because people hate the epilogues already, it's not like it's not at least somewhat justified. Yes homestuck had some crude humour in it, but it wasn't like... two beloved characters with deep emotional connections to the audience name their daughter Yiffany after they hammer home this one headcanon that was used to fetishise one of these characters, right after a well written scene that we were meant to take seriously. I don't know, it's been a while since I read homestuck, so a lot of my information might definitely be wrong about "how bad it was". At the very least, I know that I wouldn't read something like that NOW, now that I'm older and recognize issues with things much more easily. And I feel that might be similar for a lot of the fans too.

I will say that I will forgive Kanaya being a "doormat" about it exclusively if its criticized inside the actual comic and explored as a Candy Timeline thing. Because that is appropriate for Candy. I won't ever forgive Yiffy tho lmao.

As for the mention of this being Tumblr-content, I will say that tumblr is hating every bit of it. Everyone agrees this is ridiculous and awful. Some like it for that, but they're a very specific minority. This is reads more like, art you find of sonic on deviant art sometimes. Or parody of the sonic drawings on deviant art. Or a crack-fic.

[thorondraco]

Yiffy discussion, blacked out for those who don't wanna hear anymore about her. While I do genuinly think that a lot of the backlash is as intense as it is because people hate the epilogues already, it's not like it's not at least somewhat justified. Yes homestuck had some crude humour in it, but it wasn't like... two beloved characters with deep emotional connections to the audience name their daughter Yiffany after they hammer home this one headcanon that was used to fetishise one of these characters, right after a well written scene that we were meant to take seriously. I don't know, it's been a while since I read homestuck, so a lot of my information might definitely be wrong about "how bad it was". At the very least, I know that I wouldn't read something like that NOW, now that I'm older and recognize issues with things much more easily. And I feel that might be similar for a lot of the fans too.

I will say that I will forgive Kanaya being a "doormat" about it exclusively if its criticized inside the actual comic and explored as a Candy Timeline thing. Because that is appropriate for Candy. I won't ever forgive Yiffy tho lmao.

As for the mention of this being Tumblr-content, I will say that tumblr is hating every bit of it. Everyone agrees this is ridiculous and awful. Some like it for that, but they're a very specific minority. This is reads more like, art you find of sonic on deviant art sometimes. Or parody of the sonic drawings on deviant art. Or a crack-fic.

At the very least they aren't using it to fetishize jade, and more to sow some drama in her life. Could imply she suffers some level if dysphoria because of it. She might have both parts but only one is functional. IT be like if they reveal that all trolls were also hermaphrodites or something.
also lets face it, Trolls conceptually are a lot more degenerate than this concept bye sixty MILES. The difference is that it doesn't have the filter of 'they is aliens' to create that degree of separation.
PArt of it is that, most of them definitely ARE thinking this is an idea that is coming from the new writers and not Hussie. Many would still criticize hussie for it, but the anger is probably from peeps thinking this is some agenda. But this is literally one of the two things hussie basically demanded would be in the story, and i imagine its all the way from the rose and jade situation to the name as well.
Yiffany is a super odd and rather inappropriate name and they hammer it home that it is and they tried to change it back. its kinda hilarious that its part of why they kept her a secret and i imagine they feel great guilty in naming a girl that... Names are really important things in homestuck. Its why every version of any character is named their name.... It might be why it is so hard to make the carapacians change it. They are tied into the reality of paradox space.

i think another layer of irony and humor in all of this, is that Yiffany is in fact the very first completely new character to the story right now. The first new character of homestuck^2, and its a likely half dog girl, secret child wit ha lot of questionable origins, named Yiffany.

[foreverFlummoxed]

The actual reason it's hard to legally change a/her name in Carapacian kingdom: the new name has to have the same initials (so for Y. Longstocking Rose/Jade/both of them would have to come up with a new name with the initials YL (unless she's 16 then she can do it herself with the same limitations of course))

[thorondraco]

The actual reason it's hard to legally change a/her name in Carapacian kingdom: the new name has to have the same initials (so for Y. Longstocking Rose/Jade/both of them would have to come up with a new name with the initials YL (unless she's 16 then she can do it herself with the same limitations of course))

out da but headcanon but a reasonable one.

Carapacians are totally the types to make a overtly convoluted system

also a dude caller hotchocolate on the reddit realized something.
Rose was breastfeeding new vriska in the epilogue. Which probably meant she was lactating... Its possible that one could induce lactation but it seems to be an odd thing to do when the act of suckling would be enough to make abond.
But if the timeline somehow matches up to when she bore Yiffany, it means she was either pregnant or recently gave birth to Yiffany during this time. Which is what allowed her to breastfeed Vrissy.

[lavendersiren]

This update was just what I needed.

My thoughts

Show

I just freaking loved Vriska's flashy bit with the cannons and stuff. I like how she stole the spotlight in her over-the-top thief of light manner to distract the cops and the press. Classic Peak Vriska right there. I wonder if anyone will wind up drawing the sequence of events there, because that would be so fucking awesome to see Vriska in action.
The stuff involving Yiffany was kinda ??????? but honestly the entire time I was wondering when Jade was gonna drop the bad news about Dave and didn't focus very much on that situation. I am pretty darn curious about Yiffany, that's for sure. (who the hell names their child Yiffy though?! I understand it was a result of ironic 1upping/hussie's request, but come on, that's gotta be one of the worst names one could saddle their child with.)

It's interesting that godtier pajamas can be equipped magically by the owner, gonna have to remember that for later.

[thorondraco]

This update was just what I needed.

My thoughts

Show

I just freaking loved Vriska's flashy bit with the cannons and stuff. I like how she stole the spotlight in her over-the-top thief of light manner to distract the cops and the press. Classic Peak Vriska right there. I wonder if anyone will wind up drawing the sequence of events there, because that would be so fucking awesome to see Vriska in action.
The stuff involving Yiffany was kinda ??????? but honestly the entire time I was wondering when Jade was gonna drop the bad news about Dave and didn't focus very much on that situation. I am pretty darn curious about Yiffany, that's for sure. (who the hell names their child Yiffy though?! I understand it was a result of ironic 1upping/hussie's request, but come on, that's gotta be one of the worst names one could saddle their child with.)

It's interesting that godtier pajamas can be equipped magically by the owner, gonna have to remember that for later.

Does that mean that the outfits we see dirk and rose wearing are in fact their god tier outfits they directly modified?

[lavendersiren]

It's very possible. It wouldn't be the first time that a godtier outfit had been modified, though perhaps the first outside of a dreambubble environment. I can tell it's being kept purposely hazy, as per usual with those elusively obscure game mechanics/features.

[Generalrabogolfo]

okey okey i can finally think of this update without breaking into an hysterical laughter and i gotta say, loved John and Vriska's interaction a LOT. didn't expect them to be so haooy to see each other and it was one of the nicest surprises ever. the vriskourse in this update was strong with the force but thanks to my affinity to the dark side of the force i was able to complete skip over it without missing shit so i could reach the absolute HEAVEN that was that convo on the clock tower. thank you wp.

[tentativeTumbleweed]

okey okey i can finally think of this update without breaking into an hysterical laughter and i gotta say, loved John and Vriska's interaction a LOT. didn't expect them to be so haooy to see each other and it was one of the nicest surprises ever. the vriskourse in this update was strong with the force but thanks to my affinity to the dark side of the force i was able to complete skip over it without missing shit so i could reach the absolute HEAVEN that was that convo on the clock tower. thank you wp.

But it also kind of made sense, they both feel rather ... out of place in the candy timeline, John because he couldn't adapt and Vriska because she never had the chance to adapt, so it was probably pretty nice to finally find someone to actually relate to in that matter.

[overThinker]

okey okey i can finally think of this update without breaking into an hysterical laughter and i gotta say, loved John and Vriska's interaction a LOT. didn't expect them to be so haooy to see each other and it was one of the nicest surprises ever. the vriskourse in this update was strong with the force but thanks to my affinity to the dark side of the force i was able to complete skip over it without missing shit so i could reach the absolute HEAVEN that was that convo on the clock tower. thank you wp.

But it also kind of made sense, they both feel rather ... out of place in the candy timeline, John because he couldn't adapt and Vriska because she never had the chance to adapt, so it was probably pretty nice to finally find someone to actually relate to in that matter.

as the thief of light, she also assures with her presence alone that relevant things will happen, which was what john felt bereft of in the candy timeline in the first place.

although i think many people agree that vriska's stranglehold on narrative importance is getting really really old, she sort of serves as a relevance "supplement" to the candy timeline, which is pretty neat and will definitely make candy more readable in the future. honestly it seems like a really practical use of vriska's overbearing arrogance and i hope that it will be executed well.

[thorondraco]

okey okey i can finally think of this update without breaking into an hysterical laughter and i gotta say, loved John and Vriska's interaction a LOT. didn't expect them to be so haooy to see each other and it was one of the nicest surprises ever. the vriskourse in this update was strong with the force but thanks to my affinity to the dark side of the force i was able to complete skip over it without missing shit so i could reach the absolute HEAVEN that was that convo on the clock tower. thank you wp.

But it also kind of made sense, they both feel rather ... out of place in the candy timeline, John because he couldn't adapt and Vriska because she never had the chance to adapt, so it was probably pretty nice to finally find someone to actually relate to in that matter.

as the thief of light, she also assures with her presence alone that relevant things will happen, which was what john felt bereft of in the candy timeline in the first place.

although i think many people agree that vriska's stranglehold on narrative importance is getting really really old, she sort of serves as a relevance "supplement" to the candy timeline, which is pretty neat and will definitely make candy more readable in the future. honestly it seems like a really practical use of vriska's overbearing arrogance and i hope that it will be executed well.

Vriska only really became like that after john punched her in the face, mysteriously enough. She always tried and faield to steal the spotlight before.

[trying]

Wow what an update. It's definitely my favorite one so far.

I think it would have been made 64 times better if they had drawn panels for the vriska fight. I would have been fine if they released a short update, everything up until her snap, this month, and then split out that long long page of just text into two updates in may, and saved the rest of it for the following month. I get that homestuck has always been text and narrative heavy, and I appreciate that about it, but it's a comic not a book. The fact that I loved this update despite the sheer lack of panels or illustration depicting one of homestuck's claims to fame (the fights), really hits home (for me anyway) just how much potential this project has, and how much has yet to be tapped into.

As for the plot developments

I hope the quality of this development is indicative of what we can expect from the narrative in the future. I'm not really even at a place where I can fully express what I feel about it, but it's really striking me as multi faceted in it's meaning from meta, lore, and direct narrative relevance perspectives, and as batshit insane.

I wanted sylladex / captchalogue shenanigans to come back SO FUCKING BAD and I am very satiated with the act 1 callbacks / sylladex relevancy.

The combination of my values being different from the authoring team, and the experiences I've had with polyamorous relationships causes me to not be 100% vibing with their representation in the comic. I get that they want to be inclusive or whatever, and I don't know what the authoring team's plans are, but I think it would have made more sense for kanaya to get angry about this. Maybe she did, and is not showing it here, but she's not one to lie either really. At the very least, I would have enjoyed that development more than just "its ok im sad she didnt tell me".

In any case this update has solidified my negative bias towards jade into dislike. She's now on the same tier as eridan. Really I think the only moments I liked jade are in her convos with karkat act 5.


I really do hope we get some panels depicting combat at some point.