Unpopular Opinions Thread

[calamityCons]

That's honestly a really nasty thing and I'm not sure if that counts as starting a beef with the writers? I don't know why the writing team would say such a thing without trying to deliberately incite anger. If Dirk is supposed to be the Act 1-5 Fan made flesh and turned into a villain, that's. Just retreading ground we've already tread? With Calliope and Caliborn???

[BrobyDDark]

Here's a truly controversial take:

Ultimate Dirk is an anti-hero who's trying to save the familiar Homestuck canon from post-canon fuckery.

Ultimate Dirk started post-canon fuckery

I'm pretty sure the writer commentary on HS^2 says that Ultimate Dirk represents Acts 1-5 fans/fans of "Homestuck proper" who don't like the direction Homestuck and especially post-canon content has been taking, because apparently the writing team has a massive hateboner for those kinds of fans.

Sure, but he also represents what a lot of people hate about the Epilogues, specifically the absolute assassination of character that plenty of characters went through, such as Jake becoming Dirk's loyal butt-boy again, Jane becoming a (blatantly obvious) Trump allegory, Dave and Karkat becoming elusive shut-ins. And the more literal example of him killing John.

[JakeMorph]

i think bold claims like that about the writers should probably include linked sources.

[gutza1]

My analysis of Dirk as wanting to uphold familiar canon comes from the Patreon commentary for Homestuck^2. I can't upload the entire thing because that would be piracy, but let me post the relevant bit:

"In [Dirk's] two speeches thus far he has brought up the notion of canon multiple times, giving the impression that he's somewhat concerned for canonical integrity, whatever that really means. His quick dismissal of reader input also points to this concern. And now, seeing Dirk's room for the first time, another facet of this concern presents itself: Dirk has amassed a large number of familiar objects from Homestuck canon, themselves all somehow representative of ideas within the Homestuck universe. It's almost like he's shoring up a store of canon stuff in order to counterbalance the effect of the comic's gradual "fanonization", which has been going on since the end of Act 7 and which he seems to see as a somewhat corrosive, rather than creative force. I shouldn't say anything more about this yet, since it's still very early days. But it's worth bearing in mind."

[pfeffer-29]

My analysis of Dirk as wanting to uphold familiar canon comes from the Patreon commentary for Homestuck^2. I can't upload the entire thing because that would be piracy, but let me post the relevant bit:

"In [Dirk's] two speeches thus far he has brought up the notion of canon multiple times, giving the impression that he's somewhat concerned for canonical integrity, whatever that really means. His quick dismissal of reader input also points to this concern. And now, seeing Dirk's room for the first time, another facet of this concern presents itself: Dirk has amassed a large number of familiar objects from Homestuck canon, themselves all somehow representative of ideas within the Homestuck universe. It's almost like he's shoring up a store of canon stuff in order to counterbalance the effect of the comic's gradual "fanonization", which has been going on since the end of Act 7 and which he seems to see as a somewhat corrosive, rather than creative force. I shouldn't say anything more about this yet, since it's still very early days. But it's worth bearing in mind."

So, the commentary never says anything about Dirk disliking Act 6. But he is "counterbalanc[ing] the effect of the comic's gradual 'fanonization' which has been going on since the end of Act 7", so he could still be a stand-in for those who have problems with the Epilogues and/or Pesterquest. While many of those people also prefer Acts 1-5 to Act 6, not all of them do. So from the commentary alone, there is no evidence that Dirk represents the Acts 1-5 fans. However:

"It's time to get this story back on the rails, back to what it was always supposed to be. I know it, and you've somehow always known it too. There was something else, some other route that Homestuck was meant to take but then didn't, a way that wouldn't've spent so much time dicking around with stuff nobody cares about. Like seriously, [1]why did we all have to sit through talking about everyone's most intimate and private feelings for two hundred thousand fucking words. That would never have happened in Act 1. Where did it all go wrong?
I've had some time to think about these kinds of problems, and to come up with a solution. And I'm prepared to do what he couldn't, in order to save paradox space from the destruction brought upon it. I'll do what it takes and don't think I won't. The author is dead: long live the author. Look, I know what you're all really craving. I've been studying canon—or rather, what's left of it—and [2]I think I've found it. The critical moment, in the wake of which everything started to take a nosedive into the protracted, endless slog of sheer insufferability we got saddled with near the end. This was the single most crucial error in the process that led to the present situation. The day when the story was wrested screaming from the arms of its readers like a bawling infant and carried helplessly away, from then on to be raised according to the whims of a masochistic menace with [3]no thought for you, the common fan.
So now, I propose we turn the clock back to a better era, and take back what was rightfully ours. No longer will the way forward be subject to tyrannical rule. No more shall the will of the masses be cajoled and brow-beaten by the impervious Hussnasty diktat. Never again will we have to endure the terrible beating of wings, as the great moth of titillation arrests the humors of an enormous terrible old beggar, whose vulturous leathery vicegrip holds us close and whispers "I know best" in the dead of night. It's time."

--Homestuck^2, Page 6

This is the most damning of Dirk's insufferable citrus-tinted soliloquies.

[1]: Dirk groans about the "talking about everyone's most intimate and private feelings" that happened. He then tells us that such a thing would have never happened in Act 1, thereby raising Act 1 above whichever act in which the feelings talk happened, most likely Act 6, since Act 6 is the longest act by far and focuses significantly more than Acts 1-5 on feelings talk and teenage drama.

[2]: Here, Dirk segues into the buildup to his mighty suggestion box, which existed for one page and has never been seen again. Note that he mentions an "endless slog of sheer insufferability" happening near the end of the comic. As the slog must have been near the end, it must have been in Act 6, as Act 6 takes up the latter half of Homestuck's 8000 pages.

[3]: And here it is. Dirk says that he's doing this--making Homestuck^2--for "the common fan". Metanarratively, we know that's a load of horse poo; Dirk is taking control of the story because he's a villain, and everything he does will only restrict the narrative. His goals are selfish and if he gets what he wants, the story will suck, because he is a villain, and an entirely unsympathetic one at that; he is not really allowed to do something right, as far as we've seen.

By associating the idea that Act 6 wasn't good with the main villain of the story, this monologue implies that the kind of people who would like less post-canon screwery and emotional drama are like Dirk. Their opinions are not valid. This monologue is probably supposed to be ironic--for the fans who liked Act 6, it probably serves as another reason to hate Dirk, as he is completely ignorant to their desires. He only cares about a long-gone, problematic era and can never appreciate emotional drama or character-based storytelling. Now, the fans of Act 6 do not necessarily view the old guard like this, but the story does, and therein lies the problem.

Dirk in Homestuck^2 is absolutely a stand-in for the people who disliked Act 6, and probably the people who disliked Pesterquest and the Epilogues, too. Furthermore, there is no nuance to his views. Act 6 was garbage and the post-canon stuff was too.

If this is how even some of the Homestuck^2 writers view their critics, I'm scared for the franchise's future.

[Sahxyel]

(All of this)

I just want to say you put into words sufficiently what my take of that situation was as well as the unease I feel regarding it. The quote is just to ping you and tell you that I appreciate your explanation of this immensely, thank you.

[gutza1]

My analysis of Dirk as wanting to uphold familiar canon comes from the Patreon commentary for Homestuck^2. I can't upload the entire thing because that would be piracy, but let me post the relevant bit:

"In [Dirk's] two speeches thus far he has brought up the notion of canon multiple times, giving the impression that he's somewhat concerned for canonical integrity, whatever that really means. His quick dismissal of reader input also points to this concern. And now, seeing Dirk's room for the first time, another facet of this concern presents itself: Dirk has amassed a large number of familiar objects from Homestuck canon, themselves all somehow representative of ideas within the Homestuck universe. It's almost like he's shoring up a store of canon stuff in order to counterbalance the effect of the comic's gradual "fanonization", which has been going on since the end of Act 7 and which he seems to see as a somewhat corrosive, rather than creative force. I shouldn't say anything more about this yet, since it's still very early days. But it's worth bearing in mind."

So, the commentary never says anything about Dirk disliking Act 6. But he is "counterbalanc[ing] the effect of the comic's gradual 'fanonization' which has been going on since the end of Act 7", so he could still be a stand-in for those who have problems with the Epilogues and/or Pesterquest. While many of those people also prefer Acts 1-5 to Act 6, not all of them do. So from the commentary alone, there is no evidence that Dirk represents the Acts 1-5 fans. However:

"It's time to get this story back on the rails, back to what it was always supposed to be. I know it, and you've somehow always known it too. There was something else, some other route that Homestuck was meant to take but then didn't, a way that wouldn't've spent so much time dicking around with stuff nobody cares about. Like seriously, [1]why did we all have to sit through talking about everyone's most intimate and private feelings for two hundred thousand fucking words. That would never have happened in Act 1. Where did it all go wrong?
I've had some time to think about these kinds of problems, and to come up with a solution. And I'm prepared to do what he couldn't, in order to save paradox space from the destruction brought upon it. I'll do what it takes and don't think I won't. The author is dead: long live the author. Look, I know what you're all really craving. I've been studying canon—or rather, what's left of it—and [2]I think I've found it. The critical moment, in the wake of which everything started to take a nosedive into the protracted, endless slog of sheer insufferability we got saddled with near the end. This was the single most crucial error in the process that led to the present situation. The day when the story was wrested screaming from the arms of its readers like a bawling infant and carried helplessly away, from then on to be raised according to the whims of a masochistic menace with [3]no thought for you, the common fan.
So now, I propose we turn the clock back to a better era, and take back what was rightfully ours. No longer will the way forward be subject to tyrannical rule. No more shall the will of the masses be cajoled and brow-beaten by the impervious Hussnasty diktat. Never again will we have to endure the terrible beating of wings, as the great moth of titillation arrests the humors of an enormous terrible old beggar, whose vulturous leathery vicegrip holds us close and whispers "I know best" in the dead of night. It's time."

--Homestuck^2, Page 6

This is the most damning of Dirk's insufferable citrus-tinted soliloquies.

[1]: Dirk groans about the "talking about everyone's most intimate and private feelings" that happened. He then tells us that such a thing would have never happened in Act 1, thereby raising Act 1 above whichever act in which the feelings talk happened, most likely Act 6, since Act 6 is the longest act by far and focuses significantly more than Acts 1-5 on feelings talk and teenage drama.

[2]: Here, Dirk segues into the buildup to his mighty suggestion box, which existed for one page and has never been seen again. Note that he mentions an "endless slog of sheer insufferability" happening near the end of the comic. As the slog must have been near the end, it must have been in Act 6, as Act 6 takes up the latter half of Homestuck's 8000 pages.

[3]: And here it is. Dirk says that he's doing this--making Homestuck^2--for "the common fan". Metanarratively, we know that's a load of horse poo; Dirk is taking control of the story because he's a villain, and everything he does will only restrict the narrative. His goals are selfish and if he gets what he wants, the story will suck, because he is a villain, and an entirely unsympathetic one at that; he is not really allowed to do something right, as far as we've seen.

By associating the idea that Act 6 wasn't good with the main villain of the story, this monologue implies that the kind of people who would like less post-canon screwery and emotional drama are like Dirk. Their opinions are not valid. This monologue is probably supposed to be ironic--for the fans who liked Act 6, it probably serves as another reason to hate Dirk, as he is completely ignorant to their desires. He only cares about a long-gone, problematic era and can never appreciate emotional drama or character-based storytelling. Now, the fans of Act 6 do not necessarily view the old guard like this, but the story does, and therein lies the problem.

Dirk in Homestuck^2 is absolutely a stand-in for the people who disliked Act 6, and probably the people who disliked Pesterquest and the Epilogues, too. Furthermore, there is no nuance to his views. Act 6 was garbage and the post-canon stuff was too.

If this is how even some of the Homestuck^2 writers view their critics, I'm scared for the franchise's future.

Okay wow this explains it much better than my source. Thanks for writing this.

[Dirk]

My analysis of Dirk as wanting to uphold familiar canon comes from the Patreon commentary for Homestuck^2. I can't upload the entire thing because that would be piracy, but let me post the relevant bit:

"In [Dirk's] two speeches thus far he has brought up the notion of canon multiple times, giving the impression that he's somewhat concerned for canonical integrity, whatever that really means. His quick dismissal of reader input also points to this concern. And now, seeing Dirk's room for the first time, another facet of this concern presents itself: Dirk has amassed a large number of familiar objects from Homestuck canon, themselves all somehow representative of ideas within the Homestuck universe. It's almost like he's shoring up a store of canon stuff in order to counterbalance the effect of the comic's gradual "fanonization", which has been going on since the end of Act 7 and which he seems to see as a somewhat corrosive, rather than creative force. I shouldn't say anything more about this yet, since it's still very early days. But it's worth bearing in mind."

So, the commentary never says anything about Dirk disliking Act 6. But he is "counterbalanc[ing] the effect of the comic's gradual 'fanonization' which has been going on since the end of Act 7", so he could still be a stand-in for those who have problems with the Epilogues and/or Pesterquest. While many of those people also prefer Acts 1-5 to Act 6, not all of them do. So from the commentary alone, there is no evidence that Dirk represents the Acts 1-5 fans. However:

"It's time to get this story back on the rails, back to what it was always supposed to be. I know it, and you've somehow always known it too. There was something else, some other route that Homestuck was meant to take but then didn't, a way that wouldn't've spent so much time dicking around with stuff nobody cares about. Like seriously, [1]why did we all have to sit through talking about everyone's most intimate and private feelings for two hundred thousand fucking words. That would never have happened in Act 1. Where did it all go wrong?
I've had some time to think about these kinds of problems, and to come up with a solution. And I'm prepared to do what he couldn't, in order to save paradox space from the destruction brought upon it. I'll do what it takes and don't think I won't. The author is dead: long live the author. Look, I know what you're all really craving. I've been studying canon—or rather, what's left of it—and [2]I think I've found it. The critical moment, in the wake of which everything started to take a nosedive into the protracted, endless slog of sheer insufferability we got saddled with near the end. This was the single most crucial error in the process that led to the present situation. The day when the story was wrested screaming from the arms of its readers like a bawling infant and carried helplessly away, from then on to be raised according to the whims of a masochistic menace with [3]no thought for you, the common fan.
So now, I propose we turn the clock back to a better era, and take back what was rightfully ours. No longer will the way forward be subject to tyrannical rule. No more shall the will of the masses be cajoled and brow-beaten by the impervious Hussnasty diktat. Never again will we have to endure the terrible beating of wings, as the great moth of titillation arrests the humors of an enormous terrible old beggar, whose vulturous leathery vicegrip holds us close and whispers "I know best" in the dead of night. It's time."

--Homestuck^2, Page 6

This is the most damning of Dirk's insufferable citrus-tinted soliloquies.

[1]: Dirk groans about the "talking about everyone's most intimate and private feelings" that happened. He then tells us that such a thing would have never happened in Act 1, thereby raising Act 1 above whichever act in which the feelings talk happened, most likely Act 6, since Act 6 is the longest act by far and focuses significantly more than Acts 1-5 on feelings talk and teenage drama.

[2]: Here, Dirk segues into the buildup to his mighty suggestion box, which existed for one page and has never been seen again. Note that he mentions an "endless slog of sheer insufferability" happening near the end of the comic. As the slog must have been near the end, it must have been in Act 6, as Act 6 takes up the latter half of Homestuck's 8000 pages.

[3]: And here it is. Dirk says that he's doing this--making Homestuck^2--for "the common fan". Metanarratively, we know that's a load of horse poo; Dirk is taking control of the story because he's a villain, and everything he does will only restrict the narrative. His goals are selfish and if he gets what he wants, the story will suck, because he is a villain, and an entirely unsympathetic one at that; he is not really allowed to do something right, as far as we've seen.

By associating the idea that Act 6 wasn't good with the main villain of the story, this monologue implies that the kind of people who would like less post-canon screwery and emotional drama are like Dirk. Their opinions are not valid. This monologue is probably supposed to be ironic--for the fans who liked Act 6, it probably serves as another reason to hate Dirk, as he is completely ignorant to their desires. He only cares about a long-gone, problematic era and can never appreciate emotional drama or character-based storytelling. Now, the fans of Act 6 do not necessarily view the old guard like this, but the story does, and therein lies the problem.

Dirk in Homestuck^2 is absolutely a stand-in for the people who disliked Act 6, and probably the people who disliked Pesterquest and the Epilogues, too. Furthermore, there is no nuance to his views. Act 6 was garbage and the post-canon stuff was too.

If this is how even some of the Homestuck^2 writers view their critics, I'm scared for the franchise's future.

Just another ping to give props. Well said.

[TrickleJest]

This has probably been said prior, but here's something from a Discord server I'm in:

Even beyond the whole piss-in-your-face aspect god the writing is so bland
Also this will likely be very controversial but tagging your “content warnings” before every scene occurs in such an overt way (without at least putting them in a clickable spoiler with the words CONTENT WARNING above them so that they can, if need be, ignored) basically ruins any semblance of subversion or subversive technique when it’s painfully clear the subject matter will focus on the shit that you’re warned about
It’s seriously almost reminiscent of Brechtian drama, where they’d intentionally spoil the next scene for you, except here it’s done unintentionally and works against the already lackluster writing and plot
And it’s not like Homestuck 1 dealt in issues that were just as faux relatable, thus obliging the sequel to do the same.
You can go from “fascists are bad, right guys, haha?” to “GAME THAT LITERALLY DESTROYS THE UNIVERSE, FOREVER” but if you do the opposite it just becomes laughable

[sigmatic]

Also this will likely be very controversial but tagging your “content warnings” before every scene occurs in such an overt way (without at least putting them in a clickable spoiler with the words CONTENT WARNING above them so that they can, if need be, ignored) basically ruins any semblance of subversion or subversive technique when it’s painfully clear the subject matter will focus on the shit that you’re warned about
It’s seriously almost reminiscent of Brechtian drama, where they’d intentionally spoil the next scene for you, except here it’s done unintentionally and works against the already lackluster writing and plot

Was just thinking about this, I think content warnings are a welcome thing and I encourage them, but spoiler tagging them for people who don't want to see them is also fine in my book. I do wonder if spoiler tagging CW's will diminish their warning effect but I'm not really part of the audience for them so to speak, so I'd like to know what others think of that

[TrickleJest]

Also this will likely be very controversial but tagging your “content warnings” before every scene occurs in such an overt way (without at least putting them in a clickable spoiler with the words CONTENT WARNING above them so that they can, if need be, ignored) basically ruins any semblance of subversion or subversive technique when it’s painfully clear the subject matter will focus on the shit that you’re warned about
It’s seriously almost reminiscent of Brechtian drama, where they’d intentionally spoil the next scene for you, except here it’s done unintentionally and works against the already lackluster writing and plot

Was just thinking about this, I think content warnings are a welcome thing and I encourage them, but spoiler tagging them for people who don't want to see them is also fine in my book. I do wonder if spoiler tagging CW's will diminish their warning effect but I'm not really part of the audience for them so to speak, so I'd like to know what others think of that

desu I'd be fine with a huge sign that says "CLICK THIS FOR TRIGGER WARNINGS". If you don't click on that at that point, it's probably not the author's fault, not to sound rude? Like it's more the whole intrusiveness of the themes and contents for me, I wouldn't really mind if it was large and gaudy as long as people who need to see it actually do see it.

[sigmatic]

Also this will likely be very controversial but tagging your “content warnings” before every scene occurs in such an overt way (without at least putting them in a clickable spoiler with the words CONTENT WARNING above them so that they can, if need be, ignored) basically ruins any semblance of subversion or subversive technique when it’s painfully clear the subject matter will focus on the shit that you’re warned about
It’s seriously almost reminiscent of Brechtian drama, where they’d intentionally spoil the next scene for you, except here it’s done unintentionally and works against the already lackluster writing and plot

Was just thinking about this, I think content warnings are a welcome thing and I encourage them, but spoiler tagging them for people who don't want to see them is also fine in my book. I do wonder if spoiler tagging CW's will diminish their warning effect but I'm not really part of the audience for them so to speak, so I'd like to know what others think of that

desu I'd be fine with a huge sign that says "CLICK THIS FOR TRIGGER WARNINGS". If you don't click on that at that point, it's probably not the author's fault, not to sound rude? Like it's more the whole intrusiveness of the themes and contents for me, I wouldn't really mind if it was large and gaudy as long as people who need to see it actually do see it.

This is basically my stance too. It should be eye-catching enough to warn people who could be sensitive to any subject matter in the content, while also leaving the choice to the reader. Seems like a fair compromise to me!

[calamityCons]

When it comes to content warnings, they are absolutely necessary, and they must be taken SERIOUSLY. If the actual, serious content warnings such as major character death, alcoholism, nudity, extreme violence and gore, etc, are not properly warned for, then a lot of people who shouldn't be there would get involved and then be greatly upset. This will not only protect the people who would be adversely affected by the content, but also the people who are willingly there to see such content. It will prevent drama and discourse and conflict starting up because someone saw something that genuinely upset them in a visceral way, and responded by lashing out. The content warnings NEED to be there.

They do not have the right to interrupt the flow of storytelling, however. If someone were to walk into a horror movie such as Coraline or the Evil Dead Series, they will know walking in that the film will contain frightening things. Similarly, a line for a roller coaster has many signs leading up to the ride itself with explanations of what the ride will entail, and you are free to step away from the ride and get out of the line if you don't think you can handle it physically. Interrupting the story the moment before the offensive or sensitive subject matter arrives is an interruption akin to the roller coaster pausing just before the first drop, or the movie having a commercial break at a tense moment to warn you that OOOHGA BOOGA BOOGA INCOMING SCARE.

The content warnings belong at the beginning of the work, and they must NOT be treated as a joke or as an off-handed concession to "keep the whiners quiet." If the content features upsetting things, it should say so and make it clear before you even enter the line for the roller coaster. Homestuck^2 chose not to warn ahead of time and instead just slapped a trigger warning heading at the beginning of Chapter 1, which is poor form, but still fairly acceptable I suppose. The Homestuck Epilogues included joke tags such as "the economy" and "Barack Obama" alongside genuine sensitive content, which is disingenuous, insulting, and completely negates the point of content warnings.

[BrobyDDark]

Generally speaking, these content warnings should PROBABLY be a general thing. Like, a PG-13+ tag, or "Includes violence/cartoon violence and nudity" not

"Here's a list of fifty billion different things you need to read through to make sure you don't read something upsetting." However, from my understanding, the reason they set it up that way was to further theme the Epilogues as a fanfiction. I don't read fanfictions, but I believe there is a site that has trigger-warnings/tags set up in a similar manner? I dunno.

[galileanTactician]

When it comes to content warnings, they are absolutely necessary, and they must be taken SERIOUSLY. If the actual, serious content warnings such as major character death, alcoholism, nudity, extreme violence and gore, etc, are not properly warned for, then a lot of people who shouldn't be there would get involved and then be greatly upset. This will not only protect the people who would be adversely affected by the content, but also the people who are willingly there to see such content. It will prevent drama and discourse and conflict starting up because someone saw something that genuinely upset them in a visceral way, and responded by lashing out. The content warnings NEED to be there.

They do not have the right to interrupt the flow of storytelling, however. If someone were to walk into a horror movie such as Coraline or the Evil Dead Series, they will know walking in that the film will contain frightening things. Similarly, a line for a roller coaster has many signs leading up to the ride itself with explanations of what the ride will entail, and you are free to step away from the ride and get out of the line if you don't think you can handle it physically. Interrupting the story the moment before the offensive or sensitive subject matter arrives is an interruption akin to the roller coaster pausing just before the first drop, or the movie having a commercial break at a tense moment to warn you that OOOHGA BOOGA BOOGA INCOMING SCARE.

The content warnings belong at the beginning of the work, and they must NOT be treated as a joke or as an off-handed concession to "keep the whiners quiet." If the content features upsetting things, it should say so and make it clear before you even enter the line for the roller coaster. Homestuck^2 chose not to warn ahead of time and instead just slapped a trigger warning heading at the beginning of Chapter 1, which is poor form, but still fairly acceptable I suppose. The Homestuck Epilogues included joke tags such as "the economy" and "Barack Obama" alongside genuine sensitive content, which is disingenuous, insulting, and completely negates the point of content warnings.

As someone who outright despises Trigger Warnings, this is a good point. It's understandable that some people are unable to stand the content of a piece of media, but the best way they could have implemented a warning like this is best is if they put the warning on a Home Page, away from the actual comic where it wouldn't interrupt hte flow of the story. Could have made it less a Trigger Warning and more of a general disclaimer, like something along the lines of "This Comic contains Mature Content, Reader Discretion is Advised" just so that the writers wouldn't have to concern themselves with updating every chapter with an obnoxiously designed message.

[Bahinchut]

cis isn't an acronym you don't need to full cap it every time

Confederacy of Independant Systems

[TrickleJest]

When it comes to content warnings, they are absolutely necessary, and they must be taken SERIOUSLY. If the actual, serious content warnings such as major character death, alcoholism, nudity, extreme violence and gore, etc, are not properly warned for, then a lot of people who shouldn't be there would get involved and then be greatly upset. This will not only protect the people who would be adversely affected by the content, but also the people who are willingly there to see such content. It will prevent drama and discourse and conflict starting up because someone saw something that genuinely upset them in a visceral way, and responded by lashing out. The content warnings NEED to be there.

They do not have the right to interrupt the flow of storytelling, however. If someone were to walk into a horror movie such as Coraline or the Evil Dead Series, they will know walking in that the film will contain frightening things. Similarly, a line for a roller coaster has many signs leading up to the ride itself with explanations of what the ride will entail, and you are free to step away from the ride and get out of the line if you don't think you can handle it physically. Interrupting the story the moment before the offensive or sensitive subject matter arrives is an interruption akin to the roller coaster pausing just before the first drop, or the movie having a commercial break at a tense moment to warn you that OOOHGA BOOGA BOOGA INCOMING SCARE.

The content warnings belong at the beginning of the work, and they must NOT be treated as a joke or as an off-handed concession to "keep the whiners quiet." If the content features upsetting things, it should say so and make it clear before you even enter the line for the roller coaster. Homestuck^2 chose not to warn ahead of time and instead just slapped a trigger warning heading at the beginning of Chapter 1, which is poor form, but still fairly acceptable I suppose. The Homestuck Epilogues included joke tags such as "the economy" and "Barack Obama" alongside genuine sensitive content, which is disingenuous, insulting, and completely negates the point of content warnings.

I mean a lot of works (and probably most fictional works out there) still just don't have specific content warnings at all aside from broad shit like age restrictions, but I agree with your point about how if you're gonna use them you should use them the right way. That said I do still think as necessary as they may be, they should be spoilered away - essentially a win-win for people who know they may be sensitive to such content and for people who don't want to gain any unnecessary knowledge of events in the proceeding chapters. A good solution would be to put them at the very start as you said, but even at that point I feel as if viewers should be bombarded with the OPTION to view them instead of the warnings themselves.

[nonsenseMnemonic]

Also this will likely be very controversial but tagging your “content warnings” before every scene occurs in such an overt way (without at least putting them in a clickable spoiler with the words CONTENT WARNING above them so that they can, if need be, ignored) basically ruins any semblance of subversion or subversive technique when it’s painfully clear the subject matter will focus on the shit that you’re warned about

Wait, sorry, what specifically is this referring to re: Homestuck?
The CWs for the Epilogues were at the beginning of the story, and were presented as jokes and not serious warnings, and in Pesterquest I only remember them being explicitly mentioned once in-story, as a joke. The CW tab there is easy to just.. not look at. I don't look at it.
Am I missing something?

[JakeMorph]

something doesnt... need to surprise you to be subversive...? the stuff features in the content warnings in the Epilogues had nothing to do with how "Subversive" the Epilogues were trying to be and as has been pointed out a billion times before, all of it was stuff that had already occured in Homestuck at some point anyway

[MorganMustDie]

I really didn't see any evidence that the Epilogue's content warnings were supposed to be making fun of content warnings/being disingenuous or misleading. I think it was V that said the Epilogue content warnings were poking fun, specifically, at AO3's tagging system which would, in fact, mix things like "the economy" and "Barack Obama" with more serious tags such as "violence" or "depictions of suicide."

They did also make a point to, on twitter at least, make clear that "yes, everything that's been tagged on the Epilogue's will appear at some point throughout the story." it's not like they just slapped random shit into the content warning box, it was a genuinely thorough list of the themes, important warnings, and tongue in cheek gags that one would expect from an AO3-style warning box