wwe out

[thorondraco]

This was actually kind of disappointing for me. Eridan is one of my favorites, and most of the route was pretty out of character for him. I felt like he was used as a plot device for the writer to share their own personal feelings and didn't take Eridan's true nature into account very much. I think I'm going to leave it as this as I don't want to say anything too terrible, but I seriously disliked this route.

I gotta agree, I would say the writing itself was ooc, but the themes presented to us definitely werent. It just needed more delicate care is all, and for all I know the most delicate care coulda been given but I just dont see it personally.

Routes this time seem a little divisive. Like there is just something a tiny bit off. The confusing and mile of minute altreations of tone with Eridan as he keeps spiraling through his flaws, which makes sense as he is literally kinda in a spiral, i feel fits with ERidan. Dialogue felt better at the end... At the very lesat we got a one up from Zebruh here.

[calamityCons]

Wow, I didn’t realize so many people would be so disappointed with the Pesterquest route for Eridan. I found it very well done by Pesterquest standards and I really, really enjoyed it. Did I miss something?

I agree that his hemospectrum discussion popping out of the coattails of his gender nonconforming talk is jarring and makes little sense. I can handwave it as him feeling like he’s getting too close and he wants to distance himself from MSPAR by being hella racist, but it is definitely a sharp contrast.

I disagree that his gender nonconformity was a new element, since March Eridan was canonized in the dreambubbles through one of his dreamselves, and he also canonically plays “A game for Girls” aka FLARP. And even if it WAS a completely new element, we also learned that Dave loves breadsticks in his route, that Karkat hides under the floorboards all the time under a thermal blanket in his, that Vriska is trans in her route, that Nepeta actually lost her hive before moving into the cave in her route, etc.

I am honestly really surprised. Maybe the whole thing just felt too shallow for some people and too quickly paced for the subject matter of a Self Insert Fix-It Fic, but that’s a consistent problem with all of the PQ routes we’ve seen so far. Hell some of the previous routes are even just pointless meandering that accomplished nothing at all, like Gamzee’s route or Rose’s route. Other routes had significant character-centered moments and addressing the core of their development, like Jade’s loneliness and her significant investment in her destiny, or Tavros’ disability and abuse at the hands of Vriska.

I feel kinda sad or as if I were duped? I had expected more positivity coming from fellow Eridan fans, but without that I’m wondering if I missed something important or fell for some kind of trick.

[Barraskewda]

I disagree that his gender nonconformity was a new element,

I don't speak for everyone, but my issue came from the fact that it was a really interesting way to take Eridans character but it was handled so improperly, Eridan is a dramatic kid, he loves theatrics its who he is. What he isn't is a social activist fighting for the rights of the common man, hes the opposite I mean for gods sake he wants to keep "the bloodline pure" in his own words.

A better way I feel to handle the gender nonconformity is to have him freak out into his classic Eridan Histronics(tm) over the fact that someone came to him first with prospects of wanting to be friends but having this secret come out, the fact that he wears dresses. It could allow the writer to do some emotional stuff about how he's afraid of rejection, having MSPAR console them because "hey! I put on dresses too and I'd be okay with doing it again with you!" And then bam, happy happy victory screen with Eridan and MSPAR dressing up real pretty.

I got something that didn't feel like Eridan, this troll went on (admittedly well written) rants about gender nonconformity it and the like. It just felt like a route for people who don't like Eridan to start to like Eridan now, leaving original fans of Eridan in the dust with our overdramatic genocide complex lad.

[NAKNAKNAK]

It just felt like a route for people who don't like Eridan to start to like Eridan now, leaving original fans of Eridan in the dust with our overdramatic genocide complex lad.

Pretty much this. It looked like Eridan and hit most of the Eridan notes you think of when Eridan comes to mind but the entire route just felt... Hollow.

[Drinosi]

I disagree that his gender nonconformity was a new element, since March Eridan was canonized in the dreambubbles through one of his dreamselves, and he also canonically plays “A game for Girls” aka FLARP. And even if it WAS a completely new element, we also learned that Dave loves breadsticks in his route, that Karkat hides under the floorboards all the time under a thermal blanket in his, that Vriska is trans in her route, that Nepeta actually lost her hive before moving into the cave in her route, etc.

It's not that it was a 'new' element for him, it just seemed completely out of character for him. He immediately launched into a tirade about gender, when honestly I don't think gender is important to him one way or another. He hates all landdwellers, that is his thing. He wouldn't launch into a monologue about gender, he would go off about how awful landdwellers were and how they should all be wiped out or something. I just feel that a lot of what he said was more of the writer's viewpoint, and didn't really take Eridan himself into account.

Gender is something certain other characters would care about, but he just ranted about things that were pretty non-Eridan like. He didn't talk about his love of treasure or his escapades that he does and I just don't see him having glitter and confetti coming from his cannons. That seems out of character as well. Eridan means business so if he is going to attack, he'll do it with a cannon and decimate his enemy, not attack them with glitter.

He has always had certain things that WERE important to him, and he didn't really mention any of that.
If he were going to go on a tirade, it would have been more about the hemospectrum, but instead MSPA reader vomited because it bothered them so much and that was that.
Eridan isn't gentle or kind, so he would have kept going about the hemospectrum because to him, that is a big deal.

[thorondraco]

I disagree that his gender nonconformity was a new element,

I don't speak for everyone, but my issue came from the fact that it was a really interesting way to take Eridans character but it was handled so improperly, Eridan is a dramatic kid, he loves theatrics its who he is. What he isn't is a social activist fighting for the rights of the common man, hes the opposite I mean for gods sake he wants to keep "the bloodline pure" in his own words.

A better way I feel to handle the gender nonconformity is to have him freak out into his classic Eridan Histronics(tm) over the fact that someone came to him first with prospects of wanting to be friends but having this secret come out, the fact that he wears dresses. It could allow the writer to do some emotional stuff about how he's afraid of rejection, having MSPAR console them because "hey! I put on dresses too and I'd be okay with doing it again with you!" And then bam, happy happy victory screen with Eridan and MSPAR dressing up real pretty.

I got something that didn't feel like Eridan, this troll went on (admittedly well written) rants about gender nonconformity it and the like. It just felt like a route for people who don't like Eridan to start to like Eridan now, leaving original fans of Eridan in the dust with our overdramatic genocide complex lad.

That or the genocide complex was him playing up the violetblood schtick.

[thorondraco]

Feferi's route had absolutely nothing to do with Feferi.

At least Shrek 2 was there. That movie must be a gabillion sweeps old

It kinda fits with what the Reader's motivations ultimately were. To motivate Feferi to change shit. The reader made it clear he was there on business from the getgo. Fortunately they had the whole 'improve alternia' bit to bond over. The motive of the route was to get Feferi to act more than it was to flesh her out more. Though with Feferi the fleshing out aspects could come from her trying to improve alternia somehow.

But in the end they didn't, and couldn't, show us some big conflict with Feferi. Honestly its a bit realistic that it ends with Feferi concocting a plan and figuring the best path out rather than like, suddenly she is dueling the Empress. A rebellion like this needs planning.
Before she admits part of her hesitation has to do with the fears that such conflict would agitate her lusus. She is smart and has thought things, somewhat out. Has the ends in mind but not the means or what hsould be done between.

And to be fair the lusus is a big x factor here.

[calamityCons]

That is a fair criticism yeah. I would have loved to see a route of MSPAR consoling Eridan through his counterdependent histrionics and letting him know MSPAR likes dresses too and wants to dress up with him. God, I would be grinning ear to ear if MSPAR and Eridan canonically played dressup sometime. That sounds lovely.

The instant pivoting of the story from one possible bonding moment in regards to dressup into a sudden rant about the hemospectrum, then immediately into a fanservice erisol kismetic duel was pretty jarring and I did notice that. I was able to accept it though, because its the outcome of that nonsense that confirms Eridan was posturing about that as well, and that Feferi was right when she told Eridan he didn’t actually want to kill all landdwellers and was doing it for histrionic attention seeking. Just like Vriska.

I also agree it would have been super cool to see Eridan geek out about military history.

And I suppose I can see where the “it feels hollow” sentiment comes from. Jade’s route feels the exact same way to me because for all it focuses on Jade Things, something about it just seemed off to me and I didn’t get into it.

[TH4NK YOU B3N]

Hey, there's an airship. I guess Vikare did what he set out to do.

I'm not disappointed in Eridan's route, personally. I am confused by it though. Not the gender thing. That makes sense, even if there were more satisfying ways it could've been handled. It's like... it goes out of its way to validate Eridan's feelings of being awful? Why? Eridan's talking about how he seems to deserve social isolation and the reader nods along with it, telling him that he's bad despite having about the same level of performative-racism as Equius. Fuck. I sincerely like the reference to the happy Eridan in Collide, but I think the thing about dissociating over Shrek is meant to communicate that a truly happy ending for Eridan is locked out for us. We can want more for the boy, but something is preventing us from doing so.

I don't think you were necessarily duped, Cons. I think it's something everyone needs to think about a little longer. Let's listen to each other's perspectives.

I've never actually seen Pesterquest as a fix-it fic, but a subversion. First off, the Reader is fucking with bullshit that even John knows not to mess with.

JOHN: i shouldn't mess around with that moment.
JOHN: it is WAY too fundamental.

The whole thing about breaking into people's homes and trying to get Dave away from parental supervision is super skeevy, too. Plus, there's the Aradia route where we look up and the sky is full of cracks, like this is a dreambubble world.

[dualfallen]

Ever since Pesterquest was announced I have been awaiting Feferi's route, to finally see her chance to shine. When I heard Aysha's father was writing her, I grew slightly concerned since the routes he writes are all plot and no character (Fozzer and Karako). Turns out I was absolutely right to be worried. Most of the route was just words I couldn't possibly hope to understand about like space rivers and whatever other nonsense was spouted out. Just the plot. Yippee.

And then Eridan. I'm a big fan of the Eri and I really hoped they'd do him justice and all my hopes were dashed the moment he started his sermon about gender politics. I could hardly believe I was reading Eridan's route, his whole essay about gender was way too forceful. And then, after that, he is saying that lowerbloods are inferior and THAT makes us puke all over the floor? REALLY??? Horrible murder's fine but socially-standardized racism which is what Eridan has been taught is WAY over the line??? I'm really, really sick of all these politics in Homestuck. I get it, being a good person is good, I don't need Homestuck to force this into me all the time.
Besides that, though, his route was really lackluster and just mainly dealt with Sollux. I wanted to do something cool and silly with the genocidal maniac, not just watch a fight between two other people the entire time and then preach to Eridan about the values of being nice.

[thorondraco]

Ever since Pesterquest was announced I have been awaiting Feferi's route, to finally see her chance to shine. When I heard Aysha's father was writing her, I grew slightly concerned since the routes he writes are all plot and no character (Fozzer and Karako). Turns out I was absolutely right to be worried. Most of the route was just words I couldn't possibly hope to understand about like space rivers and whatever other nonsense was spouted out. Just the plot. Yippee.

And then Eridan. I'm a big fan of the Eri and I really hoped they'd do him justice and all my hopes were dashed the moment he started his sermon about gender politics. I could hardly believe I was reading Eridan's route, his whole essay about gender was way too forceful. And then, after that, he is saying that lowerbloods are inferior and THAT makes us puke all over the floor? REALLY??? Horrible murder's fine but socially-standardized racism which is what Eridan has been taught is WAY over the line??? I'm really, really sick of all these politics in Homestuck. I get it, being a good person is good, I don't need Homestuck to force this into me all the time.
Besides that, though, his route was really lackluster and just mainly dealt with Sollux. I wanted to do something cool and silly with the genocidal maniac, not just watch a fight between two other people the entire time and then preach to Eridan about the values of being nice.

I think the intent was that the Reader wasn't entirely there to make a new friend. It was a bonus to trying to start fixing alternia. He had finally grow sick and tired of it all and had to act. He had the power to act even if the power denied him directly helping his friends. so it was clear they wouldn't be going too deeply into Feferi's personal business and focus more on her desire to change Alternia.
As its clear we are coming back to this plot by the end at least i think we will see more of feferi in time. Flesh some more out of her. Her trying to reform or escape Alternia can lead to a many developments on her part.

The primary issue i am hearing, and a little bit seeing, is that this route changes focuses from the normal and instead focuses on the Reader acting to change alternia rather than just dick about making friends. In a sense this route was less of a dating sim than normal and acted somewhat more like a normal visual novel. Hoepfully we get to see more of fef in time either way.

though without question it took me a few times to understand what all was being written. Her quirk is hard to read at the best of times. But its pretty damn in character, including the fish puns and more vulgar statements, and vulgar statements in the form of fishpuns.

Also the joke was that ERidan went from Woke stuff to genocidal racism in a halfsecond and the shift caused immense nausea, like being on a roller coaster and shit suddenly jerked to the side and you're full of corndogs and soda.
Weirdly enough it sorta shows how much Eridan actually cares about that mindset as he has never attempted to use it to score with anyone.

[thorondraco]

So simplify what the Eldritch horror guru talking through Karako meant with his whole meta spiel (i like that Feferi says it sounded mostly like bullshit).


Basically there are forces at work beyond dealing with the issues directly on Alternia. So they could go through the meta guru coma thing to gain the comprehension to try and figure out the the Meta cosmic level of the issue, of the Story (which almost sounds like awakening their ultimate selves maybe?) or for now focus on the more mundane level of the issue and fix alternia the best they can.
Honestly the strange powers of Retcon probably means both of these endings happened anyway. The timeline is getting fuckier and fuckier.

What is interesting is that, if you can figure out the malarchy, it appears to be talking about elements that exist. Gaining power over reality by knowing more, the game pieces taking over the movers of the pieces, layers of reality and all that. It is all talking about the more rebellious forces like Dirk and seemingly the Ultimate self and, presumably, the Powers that Be.

I do not know why they chose Karako of all beings rather than it being the Glyb creature itself or a horror terror speaking to them. That really needs some explaining and is a new level to the msytery. Especially as, if my memory serves right, an instance of the Reader also was at the dark carnival.

[JakeMorph]

he is saying that lowerbloods are inferior and THAT makes us puke all over the floor? REALLY??? Horrible murder's fine but socially-standardized racism which is what Eridan has been taught is WAY over the line??? I'm really, really sick of all these politics in Homestuck.

lol

[Nep]

he is saying that lowerbloods are inferior and THAT makes us puke all over the floor? REALLY??? Horrible murder's fine but socially-standardized racism which is what Eridan has been taught is WAY over the line??? I'm really, really sick of all these politics in Homestuck.

lol

Either answer seriously, or get the fuck out. I have to remind you that a simple lol with a mere quote can be counted as spam. The goal of discussions like this thread is to provide discussion and insightful content and saying "lol" doesn't provide any useful commentary.

[JakeMorph]

don't worry mate i'm fully aware of all of that

[classpectanon]

Y'all better chill.

Remember to keep posts constructive, but also remember to not be overly aggressive and start fights.

[thorondraco]

Hey, there's an airship. I guess Vikare did what he set out to do.

I'm not disappointed in Eridan's route, personally. I am confused by it though. Not the gender thing. That makes sense, even if there were more satisfying ways it could've been handled. It's like... it goes out of its way to validate Eridan's feelings of being awful? Why? Eridan's talking about how he seems to deserve social isolation and the reader nods along with it, telling him that he's bad despite having about the same level of performative-racism as Equius. Fuck. I sincerely like the reference to the happy Eridan in Collide, but I think the thing about dissociating over Shrek is meant to communicate that a truly happy ending for Eridan is locked out for us. We can want more for the boy, but something is preventing us from doing so.

I don't think you were necessarily duped, Cons. I think it's something everyone needs to think about a little longer. Let's listen to each other's perspectives.

I've never actually seen Pesterquest as a fix-it fic, but a subversion. First off, the Reader is fucking with bullshit that even John knows not to mess with.

JOHN: i shouldn't mess around with that moment.
JOHN: it is WAY too fundamental.

The whole thing about breaking into people's homes and trying to get Dave away from parental supervision is super skeevy, too. Plus, there's the Aradia route where we look up and the sky is full of cracks, like this is a dreambubble world.

Weirdly enough they are both friend motivated. John wanted to create a reality where his friends were all alive and they won the game. the Reader wants to create a reality that stops dicking over all of his new friends and this latest one was him having a god damn nough of it. So he kinda even changes the nature of the visual novel a bit. Less dating sim for this route and more typical visual novel stuff.

But yea the Reader couldn't give less of a damn about Canon right now, though to be fair he can't remember canon either. His stalky stuff is pretty iffy itself but he has shown time and again he is benign if kinda weird and creepy sometimes. Guy literally has been killed and injured protecting peeps with barely a second thought, more times than he has accidentally killed people at least. He is what would be happening if John became more bold about using his powers.
Though in fact he does attempt to abuse those powers in Candy, to try and stop Dirk's suicide. Something prevents the teleport and it makes me wonder if with John, it was inevitable before he chose to try and 'fix thigns'. So things go even better.

I feel as if that he Reader becomes a force against the norms of paradox space by the end, in whatever way he survives. Paradox space will act to undo what has been wrought. And the Reader will fight against it.

[Khiara]

All I want to say about this newest volume is THANK YOU KIM QUACH FOR MAKING THOSE AWESOME SPRITES. I FELL IN LOVE WITH ERIDAN AND FEFERI EVEN MORE. YOU ARE MY HERO!

Seriously. Feferi's floating figure. Eridan's facial expressions and poses (especially THAT COOLEST BATTLE SPRITE AAH I FANGIRLED SO HARD). His art style is so dynamic and moving. Even I still can't forget his Marvus and Lanque sprites gosh

Additional notes about the narratives :
- Feferi's was fine for me. It shows her willing to change Alternia society, though I do feel it's still lacking in some way.
- I agree that Eridan's route feels kinda out of his character in some parts. I think Eridan might have gender dysphoria or such, but just... not in that way. But I still enjoyed it anyway, especially for his flaunting of his status and all, also once again, that battle scene was so rad!

[Drinosi]

All I want to say about this newest volume is THANK YOU KIM QUACH FOR MAKING THOSE AWESOME SPRITES. I FELL IN LOVE WITH ERIDAN AND FEFERI EVEN MORE. YOU ARE MY HERO!

Seriously. Feferi's floating figure. Eridan's facial expressions and poses (especially THAT COOLEST BATTLE SPRITE AAH I FANGIRLED SO HARD). His art style is so dynamic and moving. Even I still can't forget his Marvus and Lanque sprites gosh

I second that about the sprites!

Eridan's sprites were phenomenal and they really captured his personality. I don't think we could have asked for better sprites. They truly were masterpieces.

Feferi's floating figure was seriously gorgeous.

I always get excited on the off weeks when instead of a route we get a glimpse of the sprites, and I was so happy to see what was going to be in store for us this time.
Eridan's geniune smile sprite has to be my favorite of all. It's a side of Eridan no one normally gets to see.

Honestly, there weren't any that I didn't like. They were all amazing.

[thorondraco]

All I want to say about this newest volume is THANK YOU KIM QUACH FOR MAKING THOSE AWESOME SPRITES. I FELL IN LOVE WITH ERIDAN AND FEFERI EVEN MORE. YOU ARE MY HERO!

Seriously. Feferi's floating figure. Eridan's facial expressions and poses (especially THAT COOLEST BATTLE SPRITE AAH I FANGIRLED SO HARD). His art style is so dynamic and moving. Even I still can't forget his Marvus and Lanque sprites gosh

Additional notes about the narratives :
- Feferi's was fine for me. It shows her willing to change Alternia society, though I do feel it's still lacking in some way.
- I agree that Eridan's route feels kinda out of his character in some parts. I think Eridan might have gender dysphoria or such, but just... not in that way. But I still enjoyed it anyway, especially for his flaunting of his status and all, also once again, that battle scene was so rad!

Think part of the issue with Feferi is that we focus more on the reader working to convince her to deal with Alternia's issues rather than directly exploring Feferi like in most routes. But its made clear that was his intent. Befriending her was the bonus.

Though i think another part of it is that we don't see resolution here. Cause they obviously didn't have room for that and, realistically, you need time to plan such an extensive event like a rebelloin unless you want to be culled immediately.

Though we do have two endings going on. I think that we can presume that, thanks to Retcon powers, that all the endings that result in friendships/achieving the goals are 'canon'. So effectively Raeder cheats by having both things happening. Them meditating in some bubble thanks to buhddist tentacle monsters, and them plotting for Alternia.

That is probably another thing. What does the meditation stuff do in the long run here? Cause it didn't seem like a joke and seems to be there for a reason. Plans within plans are going on. Karako might have been implying that. Interlocking Rivers, flow of Story and all that.

So i guess the issue some people have is that they wanted to know more about feferi. She was awesome here, sweet but foulmouthed. Instead we got plot and a lot more questions. It almost seemed like Karako was talking about the Ultimate self. least that is what i translated in my 'bullshit meta translitificator' which is my conspiracy riddled brain.

Fuck THAT is the bigger question. WHY karako. Why not like a dead feferi? Or a horror terror? Arguably it was a horror terror talking through karako. Did they use karako specifically because of the reader? And then there is another question from here. What happened to the incarnation of the reader WITH Karako? This means it is through Karako that Feferi got to know the horror terrors.. No wonder she said they weren't so bad, they are chtulu gurus!

It ended before anything seemed accomplished and left us blueballed.

Though now that i think about it, its fitting. It was for karako that Reader first, if rather ineffectually, rebelled the best he could against the bullshit of Alternia's reality. And it is with some version of him, acting as a medium for something else, that the Reader utilizes his powers to try and change alternia. For he now has the strength... But whether or not The Powers That Be let him?